1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,010 Mick West: All right, we're recording now I just want to 2 00:00:02,010 --> 00:00:03,690 make let you know I'm recording. 3 00:00:06,420 --> 00:00:08,460 And you know, I really appreciate you doing this 4 00:00:08,490 --> 00:00:12,990 because, you know, it's a I've been tried to interview a bunch 5 00:00:12,990 --> 00:00:20,610 of people around this topic and not everyone is willing to talk 6 00:00:20,610 --> 00:00:22,920 to me. So I really appreciate you doing it. 7 00:00:23,490 --> 00:00:24,060 Kevin Day: You're welcome. 8 00:00:24,750 --> 00:00:28,080 Mick West: Let's just like start, like, set the scene. So 9 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:31,860 like when people listen to this. We know what we're talking 10 00:00:31,860 --> 00:00:36,540 about. So we were talking about obviously the Nimitz encounter, 11 00:00:37,110 --> 00:00:38,580 the so called Nimitz encounter. 12 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,480 Kevin Day: Yeah, it was several days, we were operating off the 13 00:00:42,480 --> 00:00:46,740 coast of California in our in our military operating or doing, 14 00:00:47,910 --> 00:00:50,640 getting ready to go on deployment. And for several 15 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:54,630 days, I've been watching these weird contacts off the off the 16 00:00:54,630 --> 00:00:58,140 coast of Catalina Island. And the reason why I say they were 17 00:00:58,140 --> 00:01:02,880 weird, is because our Ballistic Missile Defense guys was 18 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,100 tracking these things coming down from outer space, I found 19 00:01:05,100 --> 00:01:08,700 out later, that wasn't the view that I had on my radar, I was 20 00:01:08,940 --> 00:01:12,630 I'm more concerned with 30,000 feet and below. And then we go 21 00:01:12,630 --> 00:01:17,130 from 80,000 feet then suddenly dropped to 28,000 feet. And they 22 00:01:17,130 --> 00:01:20,220 were going south at about 100 knots, which is really weird for 23 00:01:20,220 --> 00:01:24,180 something that high in the sky to go that slow. What the hell 24 00:01:24,180 --> 00:01:27,420 flies like that I'd been sitting behind that radar for 18 years 25 00:01:27,420 --> 00:01:30,990 on three different ships behind this SPY-1 radar. I had never 26 00:01:30,990 --> 00:01:34,710 seen anything fly like that. And I was convinced it was sort of a 27 00:01:34,710 --> 00:01:36,780 glitch in the system. I was like, Hey, we need to run 28 00:01:36,780 --> 00:01:41,370 diagnostics, reload the systems. And I wasn't really concerned 29 00:01:41,370 --> 00:01:45,690 from a defense point of view, because they, as far as I knew 30 00:01:45,690 --> 00:01:48,270 it was something entirely civilian, and they didn't know 31 00:01:48,270 --> 00:01:48,840 we were down there. 32 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:54,360 But we continue to monitor them and I, uh, on the day that 33 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:57,300 commander David Fravor did his intercept, I'd probably already 34 00:01:57,300 --> 00:02:00,690 seen 60 of these things. You counted them all, they appeared 35 00:02:00,690 --> 00:02:03,570 in groups of five to ten at a time, and I thought it was some 36 00:02:03,570 --> 00:02:06,930 sort of system error until he intercepted one of them in..., 37 00:02:07,290 --> 00:02:10,140 at that moment I became convinced they were actually 38 00:02:10,140 --> 00:02:13,980 real objects. But what they were I don't know, I'm the same as 39 00:02:13,980 --> 00:02:16,000 you. I don't know. . 40 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,880 Mick West: You just asked me what I thought they were my 41 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,150 feeling I think, overall, you know, just like lay all my cards 42 00:02:22,150 --> 00:02:28,720 on the table. Is that I think that the radar contacts you saw 43 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,810 were radar glitches. Now obviously, this is just me being 44 00:02:32,830 --> 00:02:34,300 a completely non-expert, 45 00:02:34,350 --> 00:02:37,050 Kevin Day: and I did too, I did too. 46 00:02:38,140 --> 00:02:42,010 Mick West: And what I think, what I think about the rest of 47 00:02:42,010 --> 00:02:45,850 the, commander Fravor thing. Yeah, what I what I think, you 48 00:02:45,850 --> 00:02:48,760 know, I'm obviously more skeptical. And I'm coming at 49 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:50,770 this from a skeptical perspective, because I'm not 50 00:02:50,770 --> 00:02:55,240 really a big believer in, like, aliens visiting the earth or, or 51 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:59,500 even like what you describe as none, none Newtonian physics. I 52 00:02:59,500 --> 00:03:03,010 think it's, you know, obviously possible that there's something 53 00:03:03,070 --> 00:03:07,600 out there that's really unusual. But I personally need fairly 54 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:12,370 strong evidence. And I think you, being there, that day for 55 00:03:12,370 --> 00:03:17,740 you obviously, is a lot. A lot more significant. Yeah. 56 00:03:18,370 --> 00:03:23,260 So let me just, I felt like a few questions I was really, 57 00:03:23,260 --> 00:03:26,770 really what I'd like to do is, is try to kind of resolve some 58 00:03:26,770 --> 00:03:30,640 of the, I guess, some of the confusions or the conflicting 59 00:03:30,640 --> 00:03:33,760 accounts of what went on, because, you know, sometimes 60 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:37,180 they talk about one thing, and then someone else describes it 61 00:03:37,180 --> 00:03:40,120 in a slightly different way. I think perhaps people haven't 62 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,870 been digging in deep enough to resolve these questions. So I'd 63 00:03:43,870 --> 00:03:48,640 really like to talk about things in some depth about what 64 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:53,050 actually happened over those those few days. And I think the 65 00:03:53,050 --> 00:03:58,300 first question just to set the story straight is how many days 66 00:03:58,330 --> 00:03:59,530 was this happening over? 67 00:04:00,290 --> 00:04:03,260 Kevin Day: About 10 days or so? Over the 10 days. 68 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:09,800 Mick West: Okay, so the the main encounter with David favor was 69 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,380 on November the 14th. Is that correct? 70 00:04:12,890 --> 00:04:13,390 Kevin Day: Yep. 71 00:04:13,970 --> 00:04:17,810 Mick West: And so Was there anything that happened after the 72 00:04:17,810 --> 00:04:19,250 14th? We can, 73 00:04:19,280 --> 00:04:23,120 Kevin Day: Yes, we continue to track other groups after that. 74 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,650 But not as many. If I counted up all the groups together over 75 00:04:27,650 --> 00:04:30,950 that 10 day period, it was probably 100 different contacts. 76 00:04:31,430 --> 00:04:37,040 The appearance in groups of 5 to 10 at a time seemingly randomly, 77 00:04:37,070 --> 00:04:39,350 I mean, you should you should have heard this ship general 78 00:04:39,350 --> 00:04:42,800 announcing system, "senior Chief Day your presence is requested 79 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,970 in combat, all day all night. It was a long 10 days. 80 00:04:48,500 --> 00:04:52,640 Mick West: So you were like the main guy manning the radar 81 00:04:52,790 --> 00:04:53,540 system. 82 00:04:53,660 --> 00:04:58,670 Kevin Day: Yeah. The senior guy for air defense. In addition to 83 00:04:58,670 --> 00:04:59,750 the captain, obviously 84 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:00,740 Mick West: Okay, 85 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:02,670 Kevin Day: on the ??? side of the house, 86 00:05:03,330 --> 00:05:05,610 Mick West: you reported directly to the captain Captain Smith, I 87 00:05:05,610 --> 00:05:06,000 think his name was 88 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:10,230 Kevin Day: Captain smith, correct, Who has strangely never 89 00:05:10,230 --> 00:05:14,490 came out one way or the other on this? I think it could be. I 90 00:05:14,490 --> 00:05:18,030 think he has a job with the UN and probably concerned about 91 00:05:18,030 --> 00:05:21,930 that, to some extent or I'm not sure what his mindset is. But 92 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:28,530 even at the time he had problems accepting this, I asked him, I 93 00:05:28,530 --> 00:05:32,520 said, Mick I asked him "Hey sir, what do you think these things 94 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,060 were?" You know what he told me? He said it was spontaneously 95 00:05:36,060 --> 00:05:41,910 forming ice from space. And I actually laughed at him. Sorry, 96 00:05:41,910 --> 00:05:46,620 sorry sir, I kind of caught myself here. It, it was 97 00:05:46,620 --> 00:05:48,840 ridiculous to me that explanation to 98 00:05:48,870 --> 00:05:51,090 Mick West: Did he actually say, like from space? 99 00:05:53,310 --> 00:05:55,350 Kevin Day: That's what he said, well, because we had our 100 00:05:55,470 --> 00:05:58,260 Ballistic Missile Defense space tracking these thing, coming 101 00:05:58,290 --> 00:05:58,950 from space. 102 00:06:00,390 --> 00:06:01,890 Mick West: Yeah, so that's one of the things I wanted to ask 103 00:06:01,890 --> 00:06:07,140 about. You said that the ballistic missiles defense guys, 104 00:06:07,140 --> 00:06:11,520 were tracking them coming from space. Was this something that 105 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:13,470 you were aware of at the time? 106 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,980 Kevin Day: Well, I was not. I was not I was that was not my 107 00:06:17,010 --> 00:06:20,940 focus, and wasn't where my head was at at that time. 108 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:26,880 Mick West: So How did you find out about this ballistic missile 109 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:27,690 defense 110 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,450 Kevin Day: In the next couple of days talking to the guys on the 111 00:06:30,450 --> 00:06:31,020 ships? 112 00:06:31,650 --> 00:06:34,470 Mick West: Okay. And 113 00:06:35,250 --> 00:06:37,410 Kevin Day: maybe we can do this again, I can get a couple of the 114 00:06:37,410 --> 00:06:40,050 other guys together. That would be would be interesting. You 115 00:06:40,050 --> 00:06:42,240 could ask me some questions. I don't have answers to because it 116 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:43,140 wasn't my position. 117 00:06:43,710 --> 00:06:45,840 Mick West: Right. Yeah. So you know, what I want to do is 118 00:06:46,020 --> 00:06:48,210 clarify everything you know, about this. 119 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:49,220 Kevin Day: Okay. 120 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:53,260 Mick West: All right. So you said like I was trying to get a 121 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:56,530 narrowed down the days that it happened. So it kind of centers 122 00:06:56,530 --> 00:06:59,530 around the 14th, which is the the Fravor and the Underwood 123 00:06:59,530 --> 00:07:01,990 encounter. And you say it happened for a few days after 124 00:07:01,990 --> 00:07:04,900 that, and a few days before? Do you know, can you can you? 125 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:09,250 Kevin Day: Well, that's my recollection, from about the 4th 126 00:07:09,250 --> 00:07:13,210 of November to about the 15th of November. Okay, and I'd have to 127 00:07:13,210 --> 00:07:18,910 consult with the actual logbooks. We FOI them, FOIA 128 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:22,720 them? I think Dave Beaty done that. I'll double check. I owe 129 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:26,380 you an answer on that specific dates. You've got to remember, 130 00:07:26,380 --> 00:07:29,290 I'm ... long... memories now 131 00:07:30,180 --> 00:07:33,000 Mick West: yeah. Yeah, that's kind of one of the problems of 132 00:07:33,270 --> 00:07:38,850 the whole thing is that it was in 2004, November 2004. And so I 133 00:07:38,850 --> 00:07:42,240 think a lot of people, you know, some of the details are 134 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,520 obviously going to be a little bit hazy or even wrong at this 135 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:45,020 point. 136 00:07:46,370 --> 00:07:52,190 Kevin Day: Honestly so. I don't think anyone is lying about it 137 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:58,460 Mick West: No, no, I don't think so. I mean, I got from my, from 138 00:07:58,490 --> 00:08:00,500 everybody, I've talked to me, I haven't talked to that many 139 00:08:00,500 --> 00:08:03,380 people. But I've listened to a lot of the interviews, I talked 140 00:08:03,380 --> 00:08:08,630 to Gary Voorhis, and talked to a few people kind of online, just 141 00:08:08,630 --> 00:08:15,110 chatting. And I think everybody that I know of is giving their 142 00:08:15,140 --> 00:08:18,380 honest recollection and their honest interpretation of what 143 00:08:18,380 --> 00:08:20,780 they saw on those days. 144 00:08:21,590 --> 00:08:25,280 Kevin Day: I know I can speak for myself, I know I am. And I 145 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,820 want to, I still want to make this ID ???. That was my whole 146 00:08:28,820 --> 00:08:33,350 job was to identify everything that flew. And I have yet to 147 00:08:33,350 --> 00:08:35,000 make this ID and I still want to. 148 00:08:36,650 --> 00:08:41,060 Mick West: So, so what you saw, like what was the very first 149 00:08:41,060 --> 00:08:43,160 time you saw something that was strange. 150 00:08:44,950 --> 00:08:47,980 Kevin Day: It was on or about the fourth of November, I was up 151 00:08:47,980 --> 00:08:51,940 on watch, it was the evening watch, probably at 8pm at night 152 00:08:51,940 --> 00:08:57,010 2000 in military time. And notice, I believe there is five 153 00:08:57,010 --> 00:08:59,530 contacts the first time I saw it right off the coast of Catalina. 154 00:09:00,250 --> 00:09:03,880 They were at 28,000 feet. And in some way, they caught my 155 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,880 attention, because they were going 100 knots, which is really 156 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:11,530 slow for something that high in the sky. Wasn't, we didn't have 157 00:09:11,530 --> 00:09:14,860 the airwing onboard the carrier yet, on board the Nimitz. We 158 00:09:14,860 --> 00:09:17,860 were down off, getting ready for the air wing to to arrive in a 159 00:09:17,860 --> 00:09:22,360 couple days. And I wasn't really concerned from a defense 160 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:25,240 perspective, because as far as I knew this was something 161 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:27,970 completely civilian related. And they didn't even know we were 162 00:09:27,970 --> 00:09:30,760 down there. They had no idea we were even there. So it was 163 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,310 something that I started to monitor at that point, just 164 00:09:33,310 --> 00:09:36,850 because the permissions were so stringent. And again at this 165 00:09:36,850 --> 00:09:40,210 time, at this point, I didn't I wasn't aware that the Ballistic 166 00:09:40,210 --> 00:09:43,780 Missile Defense guys had tracked these things from outer space. I 167 00:09:43,810 --> 00:09:47,740 had no idea about that. It was above my clearance, basically 168 00:09:47,740 --> 00:09:50,620 above my security clearance. 169 00:09:51,750 --> 00:09:54,990 Mick West: So when you see these things, you know that 28,000 170 00:09:54,990 --> 00:09:59,340 feet 100 knots off the coast of Catalina how does that actually 171 00:09:59,340 --> 00:10:03,840 show up on you? Are your radar screen or your display screen, 172 00:10:04,530 --> 00:10:09,270 Kevin Day: we very seldom look at raw radar, everything is , if 173 00:10:09,270 --> 00:10:12,570 I get a contact or a symbol that comes up in our system's up 174 00:10:13,560 --> 00:10:18,360 automatically. For the most part, I'm ??? at things using 175 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:21,240 all of our systems and sensors and it'll create a symbol on the 176 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:26,100 scope. And it's based on the sine wave like, part of the sine 177 00:10:26,100 --> 00:10:29,130 wave, there's an air contact, the whole, the whole thing of 178 00:10:29,130 --> 00:10:31,740 the surface contact, and the bottom part of the sine wave 179 00:10:31,890 --> 00:10:37,110 would be a submarine contact. Okay, and take that you take 180 00:10:37,110 --> 00:10:40,020 that symbol, and it's got a vector on it. Like if it's 181 00:10:40,020 --> 00:10:42,420 tracking down this way, the length of the vector will show 182 00:10:42,420 --> 00:10:46,110 me the relative speed. And if I click on it, I'll have all the 183 00:10:46,110 --> 00:10:49,320 information that I actually ??? contact with, pops up on the 184 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,500 scope, and I can see everything I need to see about the contact, 185 00:10:52,500 --> 00:10:54,270 but it's all based on symbology. 186 00:10:55,410 --> 00:10:59,970 Mick West: Yeah. So when it when it came up as a as a kind of an 187 00:10:59,970 --> 00:11:01,170 unknown contacts 188 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:05,490 Kevin Day: that it came back to the square shape top of the sine 189 00:11:05,490 --> 00:11:06,510 wave for unknown. 190 00:11:07,230 --> 00:11:14,340 Mick West: Okay. And but it did it tell you what the the the 191 00:11:14,340 --> 00:11:16,260 speed was? 100 knots. 192 00:11:16,350 --> 00:11:16,850 Kevin Day: Oh, yeah. 193 00:11:17,730 --> 00:11:19,440 Mick West: Okay, so it could detect that. 194 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:21,090 Kevin Day: Yeah. 195 00:11:21,090 --> 00:11:24,000 Mick West: And they were heading heading south from Catalina 196 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:24,210 Kevin Day: Right, heading South. Now the ???, the interesting 197 00:11:24,210 --> 00:11:24,750 Island 198 00:11:27,930 --> 00:11:31,770 thing is they all appeared just off the coast of Catalina 199 00:11:31,770 --> 00:11:36,360 Island. And they track past us, between us in the mainland. And 200 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,880 they all disappeared off my scope in the same point in the 201 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:44,340 sky. Right above of Guadalupe island off the coast of Mexico, 202 00:11:44,940 --> 00:11:48,450 which is why Lou Elizondo when he came to interview me. When as 203 00:11:48,450 --> 00:11:50,700 soon as that came out my mouth he's like "I'm going there", and 204 00:11:50,700 --> 00:11:54,240 he did, he went down to Guadeloupe. You know, on that 205 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,420 first show he did, on Unidentified, and that's ow that 206 00:11:57,420 --> 00:12:01,230 came about happening. I just like I think that was kind of 207 00:12:01,230 --> 00:12:03,990 odd. All disappeared at the same point in the sky. 208 00:12:05,130 --> 00:12:07,740 Mick West: Yeah, and it did they all appear in the same point in 209 00:12:07,740 --> 00:12:08,000 the sky. 210 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:12,290 Kevin Day: They did Yep. Just off the coast of Catalina 211 00:12:12,290 --> 00:12:15,920 Mick West: So they kind of sprung into existence. Just off 212 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:17,810 the coast. What just south of Catalina was it? 213 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:21,810 Kevin Day: Was about midway down there. 214 00:12:24,150 --> 00:12:29,850 Mick West: Okay. And then they traveled from Catalina to 215 00:12:29,850 --> 00:12:34,860 Guadalupe, and they pass between your group, I guess, the 216 00:12:34,860 --> 00:12:37,740 Princeton and the mainland. 217 00:12:38,130 --> 00:12:39,000 Kevin Day: That's correct, yes 218 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:44,580 Mick West: Alright, how long did it How long did you track one 219 00:12:44,580 --> 00:12:45,960 individual for? 220 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:51,990 Kevin Day: That's a good question. I can do the math in 221 00:12:51,990 --> 00:12:57,960 my head. It's 100 knots. It's probably, what is it, 250 miles, 222 00:12:57,960 --> 00:12:59,670 a couple of couple hours easily. 223 00:12:59,670 --> 00:13:02,880 Mick West: Right. So you can see them the whole way from all the 224 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:05,220 way from Catalina and yeah, 225 00:13:06,750 --> 00:13:10,170 Kevin Day: you know, our when we get a contact, the system grades 226 00:13:10,170 --> 00:13:13,890 it on the quality on the radar. And I had the highest system 227 00:13:13,890 --> 00:13:19,440 track quality and contacts the entire time. The highest quality 228 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:19,950 possible. 229 00:13:20,850 --> 00:13:23,040 Mick West: And they showed up in groups 230 00:13:24,060 --> 00:13:25,080 Kevin Day: of five to 10 each. 231 00:13:25,830 --> 00:13:28,500 Mick West: Okay, were they always in groups, or were they 232 00:13:28,500 --> 00:13:29,850 sometimes individually. 233 00:13:31,490 --> 00:13:34,430 Kevin Day: Always in groups. In fact, the only time they ever 234 00:13:34,430 --> 00:13:37,550 broke formation when Commander Fravor intercepting one of them, 235 00:13:38,150 --> 00:13:40,550 and that one that he intercepted, I drove them to the 236 00:13:40,550 --> 00:13:43,610 point in the sky 28,000 feet and as soon as he got what we call 237 00:13:43,610 --> 00:13:47,180 the merge plot position, which is two objects in the same 238 00:13:47,180 --> 00:13:50,360 vertical piece of sky. Then on a two dimensional display, it 239 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:54,650 looks like one, they've merged, it's called merge plot, can't 240 00:13:54,650 --> 00:13:58,190 distinguish anymore, as soon as that, as soon as he was at that 241 00:13:58,190 --> 00:14:01,730 point in the sky, this object went from 28,000 feet down to 242 00:14:01,730 --> 00:14:05,240 the surface of the ocean. I found out the next day in 0.78 243 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:09,740 seconds. From 28,000 feet down to the surface of the water in 244 00:14:09,980 --> 00:14:15,890 less than a second. No sonic boom. No sonic boom. 245 00:14:16,470 --> 00:14:18,960 Mick West: Yeah, I don't want, I'll get to that in a second. I 246 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,350 just want to like, you know, talk about the these groups like 247 00:14:22,350 --> 00:14:26,790 because you said you vectored out commander Fravor to one of 248 00:14:26,790 --> 00:14:28,680 them. Now was that part of a group? 249 00:14:30,370 --> 00:14:34,180 Kevin Day: Yeah, it was part of a group. If I if I could, the 250 00:14:34,180 --> 00:14:36,610 sense that I had when I was looking at these things, if you 251 00:14:36,610 --> 00:14:41,140 could imagine snow flakes falling in a calm winter day and 252 00:14:41,140 --> 00:14:45,520 kind of slowly how they tracked down the scope. They just kept 253 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:48,610 their relative positions to each other and they very slowly made 254 00:14:48,610 --> 00:14:50,890 their way from north to south on the radar. 255 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:53,800 Mick West: So, like, you talking about how they kind of moved on 256 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:59,350 the screen. It was like snow coming down. Almost like a 257 00:14:59,350 --> 00:14:59,980 screensaver. 258 00:15:01,810 --> 00:15:02,860 Kevin Day: Yeah, yeah. 259 00:15:03,250 --> 00:15:05,350 Mick West: Yeah, it's interesting. And so they stayed 260 00:15:05,350 --> 00:15:08,020 in the same relative position the entire time. 261 00:15:08,050 --> 00:15:10,540 Kevin Day: Yeah. They won't go on like this or nothing [rotates 262 00:15:10,540 --> 00:15:17,860 hand] They stayed the same. Almost like they were tied 263 00:15:18,010 --> 00:15:18,510 together. 264 00:15:19,570 --> 00:15:23,500 Mick West: What? How spaced out were they, in this group? How 265 00:15:23,500 --> 00:15:28,030 big is the group? Typical space between two of them 266 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:34,360 Kevin Day: A number of miles, probably five miles, if I had to 267 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:38,650 guess, but I don't recall, to be honest with you Yeah, it wasn't 268 00:15:38,650 --> 00:15:41,470 like, it wasn't like 100 miles apart. It was pretty tight 269 00:15:41,470 --> 00:15:45,730 group. And they stayed in the same relative positions to each 270 00:15:45,730 --> 00:15:48,550 other the entire time. And then 271 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,250 Mick West: when you're looking at the screen, you've I guess 272 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:59,310 you got a big overview map as well. So you could see like, 273 00:15:59,340 --> 00:16:03,210 Catalina at the top and Guadalupe at the bottom, and oh, 274 00:16:03,210 --> 00:16:05,400 well, you zoomed in on on the region. 275 00:16:06,470 --> 00:16:09,560 Kevin Day: I zoomed in and out the entire time. I could zoom in 276 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:10,400 and out all I want. 277 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:12,990 Mick West: So when you're zoomed all the way out? Could you still 278 00:16:12,990 --> 00:16:16,290 distinguish between the individual objects in the group? 279 00:16:17,380 --> 00:16:19,930 Kevin Day: Yeah, yeah, it was individual contacts. 280 00:16:20,470 --> 00:16:21,070 Okay, good. 281 00:16:21,100 --> 00:16:30,040 ??? all independent. You take the mouse and click on them and 282 00:16:30,190 --> 00:16:33,250 information about the content pops up. We call it 283 00:16:33,580 --> 00:16:34,080 [?]hooking[?]. 284 00:16:34,740 --> 00:16:40,230 Mick West: Okay. Did you? I mean, I guess you were trying to 285 00:16:40,230 --> 00:16:44,010 figure out what they were at the time and you thought balloons 286 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:47,700 might have been a thing? I think you mentioned that at one point. 287 00:16:47,910 --> 00:16:53,430 Kevin Day: Yeah, I was. I was. I either thought it was some sort 288 00:16:53,430 --> 00:16:56,850 of a system error or something civilian related, like balloons. 289 00:16:57,390 --> 00:17:01,950 And they didn't even know we were down there. I wasn't even 290 00:17:01,950 --> 00:17:06,960 remotely thinking aliens just so you know. And at the time, I 291 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:12,600 wasn't even thinking UFOs, it just wasn't what I was thinking. 292 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,930 I'm pretty skeptical myself. Yeah, 293 00:17:19,530 --> 00:17:21,270 Mick West: Did it look like it was kind of artificial. I mean, 294 00:17:21,270 --> 00:17:24,780 you described it like, like snow, drifting down the screen, 295 00:17:24,780 --> 00:17:27,090 which almost makes it look like sounds like something that's 296 00:17:27,090 --> 00:17:30,090 overlaid on top of the screen rather than something that's 297 00:17:30,090 --> 00:17:30,840 really there. 298 00:17:33,870 --> 00:17:36,390 Kevin Day: They behave like normal context, in terms of 299 00:17:36,390 --> 00:17:42,000 symbology and stuff. Just another contact I had. It wasn't 300 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,270 commercial airliners. I know that. When you mentioned maps, I 301 00:17:45,270 --> 00:17:48,480 got on my display I can display all the commercial airline 302 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,030 routes. There is no commercial airline out right there. 303 00:17:51,660 --> 00:17:55,950 Mick West: Yeah. Yeah, there's not a lot of traffic. I mean, 304 00:17:56,340 --> 00:17:59,010 I've looked that up. And you just occasionally get like a 305 00:17:59,010 --> 00:18:03,720 business jet coming from from Mexico, or South America. And 306 00:18:03,750 --> 00:18:07,230 usually they're going overland rather than over the water in 307 00:18:07,230 --> 00:18:08,160 that area. 308 00:18:09,330 --> 00:18:10,740 Kevin Day: Right. Unless they are going east-west 309 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,630 Mick West: Yeah, obviously, you do get some going TO to Asia and 310 00:18:15,660 --> 00:18:22,350 Hawaii from places. But yeah, so I guess like the, you would have 311 00:18:22,350 --> 00:18:27,360 had like, some kind of military operations area defined there 312 00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:30,960 for the fleet. And you have a NOTAM like a notice to airmen 313 00:18:31,230 --> 00:18:36,330 telling people to stay away. Do you remember like, when they 314 00:18:36,330 --> 00:18:41,010 started, I guess they would have been outside that area. Did they 315 00:18:41,010 --> 00:18:42,720 remain outside the area? 316 00:18:43,410 --> 00:18:45,600 Kevin Day: No, they traveled right through the Southern 317 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:49,620 California operating area. When I see them offset peddling, of 318 00:18:49,620 --> 00:18:51,690 course, it's right up that's outside of the military 319 00:18:51,690 --> 00:18:55,590 operating area. But as you get down the coast guard right about 320 00:18:55,620 --> 00:19:00,120 San Clemente. That's when it turns into a military operating. 321 00:19:01,260 --> 00:19:05,430 Mick West: Yes, it is like that's like 30 miles south of 322 00:19:05,550 --> 00:19:09,510 Catalina I think so something 20-30 miles. This military base 323 00:19:09,750 --> 00:19:13,530 San Clemente? Yeah. 324 00:19:14,620 --> 00:19:18,670 Kevin Day: A small one. It's where we do our naval gunfire 325 00:19:18,670 --> 00:19:22,360 support training, usually from our shooting our five inch guns. 326 00:19:22,930 --> 00:19:25,600 There's targets out there and we'll sit off the coast and 327 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,630 bombardment. And you got people on the beach calling in the 328 00:19:28,630 --> 00:19:31,450 shot, follow shot. Doing corrections. 329 00:19:33,190 --> 00:19:33,940 Mick West: Sounds like fun. 330 00:19:35,170 --> 00:19:36,040 Kevin Day: Been out there before 331 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:42,190 Mick West: Yeah. So yeah, sorry. If I keep like reiterating 332 00:19:42,190 --> 00:19:45,070 things. I want to make sure I'm clear on exactly what was going 333 00:19:45,070 --> 00:19:47,950 on. And you know that some of this stuff hasn't been clear to 334 00:19:47,950 --> 00:19:51,730 me before. But it's fascinating, like you're talking about, you 335 00:19:51,730 --> 00:19:56,170 know, this, this formation going from North to south and you saw 336 00:19:56,170 --> 00:20:01,480 this type of thing happen. Like it was like every day, those 10 337 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:01,980 days. 338 00:20:03,580 --> 00:20:06,790 Kevin Day: Yeah, whose every day and sometimes a couple, you 339 00:20:06,790 --> 00:20:07,810 know, several times a day. 340 00:20:09,670 --> 00:20:13,930 Mick West: And so the first day that it happened, you had a 341 00:20:13,930 --> 00:20:21,910 group of 28,000 feet going south at 100 knots. And it goes over 342 00:20:21,910 --> 00:20:24,820 the carrier group or last year, we went near the carrier, it was 343 00:20:24,820 --> 00:20:29,380 in the, it was in the, what do you call it? The military area? 344 00:20:30,010 --> 00:20:31,240 Kevin Day: SoCal operating area. 345 00:20:31,570 --> 00:20:33,490 Mick West: Okay, that's okay. It's in the SoCal operating 346 00:20:33,490 --> 00:20:38,020 area, which it shouldn't be if it was, you know, a commercial 347 00:20:38,020 --> 00:20:44,110 jacket or something like that, or even a balloon? Was there was 348 00:20:44,110 --> 00:20:49,870 there like any kind of reaction to that, from from you and other 349 00:20:49,870 --> 00:20:53,320 people? Was there any talk about intercepting it on the first 350 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:53,820 day? 351 00:20:54,590 --> 00:20:57,080 Kevin Day: Well, we didn't have the airwing available to us, 352 00:20:58,250 --> 00:21:04,070 until the very last part of this encounter. And as soon as I, as 353 00:21:04,070 --> 00:21:08,840 soon as I, as soon as I had aircraft that I can use, I 354 00:21:08,930 --> 00:21:11,270 talked to commander Smith, I said, Hey, sir, you know, been 355 00:21:11,270 --> 00:21:14,480 tracking the things for several days, and no one in the strike 356 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:18,980 group has any idea what these are. And I, we're getting ready 357 00:21:18,980 --> 00:21:21,350 to do a big air defense exercise, we're going to launch 358 00:21:21,350 --> 00:21:23,270 a bunch of aircraft off the beach, and we're going to launch 359 00:21:23,270 --> 00:21:27,530 our guys, a mock air battle in that same piece of sky. So now 360 00:21:27,530 --> 00:21:30,320 I'm concerned about safety of flight. Because I've got these 361 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:34,970 unknown objects, right in our playground area. And I strongly 362 00:21:34,970 --> 00:21:37,970 recommend we go intercept one and see what they are. So if 363 00:21:37,970 --> 00:21:40,730 there's not some sort of an error, error mishap, because if 364 00:21:40,730 --> 00:21:43,580 there is, you can ask both you and me we were so damaged, 365 00:21:43,580 --> 00:21:47,030 curious. And he looks at me, he goes, you're right. So your 366 00:21:47,030 --> 00:21:50,840 chief intercept one. And that that's how commander, Fast 367 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:56,180 Equal's up. Fast Eagle 01. He was the first one to launch. And 368 00:21:56,180 --> 00:21:59,900 we immediately took him under control because EW Hawkeye radar 369 00:21:59,900 --> 00:22:06,290 ??? did not have any radar on these things, only we did. And 370 00:22:06,290 --> 00:22:09,470 we drove them to the closest contact. And that's when it all 371 00:22:09,470 --> 00:22:10,010 happens. 372 00:22:11,650 --> 00:22:15,490 Mick West: So say 10 days earlier, let's say, it happened 373 00:22:15,490 --> 00:22:20,950 on the 14th. And you saw on the first on the fourth. Like, why? 374 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,410 I mean, wasn't it wasn't that serious, though? 375 00:22:28,060 --> 00:22:31,210 Kevin Day: I know. I mean, that there's all kinds of aircraft 376 00:22:31,210 --> 00:22:33,370 off the coast. You know, I can't intercept everything just 377 00:22:33,370 --> 00:22:37,600 because, okay, I had no way to do it anyway. I mean, we were 378 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:42,100 reporting to the Beach over our datalinks and stuff. So if there 379 00:22:42,100 --> 00:22:44,740 was some entity on the Beach worried about him that I didn't 380 00:22:44,740 --> 00:22:47,740 know about it. I mean, we were we were reported in the whole 381 00:22:47,740 --> 00:22:53,140 time. Our radar picture goes to the Beach, put it that way. 382 00:22:53,170 --> 00:22:55,510 Yeah. People on the Beach to see what we're seeing 383 00:22:56,470 --> 00:22:59,200 Mick West: Is the Beach, the, like the kind of the command 384 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,530 center like, near San Diego or something like that. 385 00:23:04,070 --> 00:23:06,950 Kevin Day: Commander 3rd fleeet, ??? back San Diego and there are 386 00:23:06,950 --> 00:23:10,220 several different commands that get our radar returned if they 387 00:23:10,220 --> 00:23:12,680 want to see it, in our datalink picture. 388 00:23:13,820 --> 00:23:16,460 Mick West: Yeah. Okay, so 389 00:23:17,540 --> 00:23:19,700 Kevin Day: I would The only reason why I convinced that 390 00:23:19,700 --> 00:23:23,840 Captain stood to intercept these things, was because I called the 391 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:28,670 "safety of flight" thing on him. And that's really hard to argue 392 00:23:28,670 --> 00:23:29,170 with. 393 00:23:29,690 --> 00:23:30,260 Mick West: Right 394 00:23:31,220 --> 00:23:33,980 Kevin Day: If we would have just ignored it. And we would have 395 00:23:33,980 --> 00:23:37,670 launched all these groups of aircraft and one of our guys hit 396 00:23:37,670 --> 00:23:42,080 one of those objects. We could have gotten in a lot of trouble. 397 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,830 That's what I told him right? Not safe, we need to figure out 398 00:23:45,830 --> 00:23:50,120 what this is. So we can either avoid it or cancel the exercise. 399 00:23:51,570 --> 00:23:54,300 Mick West: Yeah. Because at that point, you are you are planning 400 00:23:54,330 --> 00:23:56,940 you know, you you are going to launch all of these planes. And 401 00:23:56,940 --> 00:23:59,400 we're going to be doing these simulated dogfights and things 402 00:23:59,400 --> 00:23:59,970 like that. 403 00:24:02,450 --> 00:24:04,790 Kevin Day: Yeah, right. right about that altitude too. 404 00:24:05,990 --> 00:24:10,280 Mick West: So before that point, so before that point, you You 405 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,580 didn't consider it a danger to the to the fleet. It wasn't like 406 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:14,080 a 407 00:24:35,030 --> 00:24:37,880 didn't even know we were down there. None of our business type 408 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,030 of thing. Or I thought it was some sort of system malfunction. 409 00:24:42,590 --> 00:24:43,130 Mick West: Right. 410 00:24:43,190 --> 00:24:45,740 Kevin Day: I definitely wasn't thinking UFOs, trust me on that. 411 00:24:45,770 --> 00:24:49,940 That was Yeah, wasn't really my thought process at the time who 412 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,180 I would have laughed back, if someone would have said that. I 413 00:24:53,180 --> 00:24:53,680 would have laughed. 414 00:24:55,460 --> 00:24:57,830 Mick West: Oh, yeah, I mean, that's everyone's general 415 00:24:57,830 --> 00:25:01,460 reaction. Not everybody. I mean, a lot of people actually do 416 00:25:01,850 --> 00:25:06,350 believe in UFOs. But I think from a practical point of view, 417 00:25:06,620 --> 00:25:09,950 you don't expect to encounter them. Especially flying over the 418 00:25:09,950 --> 00:25:10,450 fleet. 419 00:25:11,690 --> 00:25:18,560 Kevin Day: Especially. Yeah. It wasn't what I was thinking, I 420 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:19,060 can tell you that. 421 00:25:20,180 --> 00:25:24,860 Mick West: Yeah. So let's just talk a bit about Fravor's 422 00:25:24,860 --> 00:25:30,140 encounter. So, you, for safety reasons, you decided that you 423 00:25:30,170 --> 00:25:34,070 wanted to intercept one of these things. And you talked to 424 00:25:34,070 --> 00:25:39,200 Captain Smith and persuaded him and then I guess there was a, 425 00:25:39,260 --> 00:25:42,770 there was a set of, do you remember how many were in the 426 00:25:42,770 --> 00:25:44,300 group that you sent him towards? 427 00:25:46,430 --> 00:25:47,750 Kevin Day: There was I believe there was five. 428 00:25:48,530 --> 00:25:50,720 Mick West: Okay, so it was five. 429 00:25:52,190 --> 00:25:53,120 Kevin Day: He's in a flight of two 430 00:25:54,380 --> 00:25:58,190 Mick West: Okay, he said he's in a flight of two and he's going 431 00:25:58,190 --> 00:26:00,410 towards a group of five targets. 432 00:26:02,070 --> 00:26:04,920 Kevin Day: Okay, and as soon as Commander Fravor gets, he has 433 00:26:05,610 --> 00:26:08,880 his wing buddy a little bit higher, they kind offset 434 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,030 vertically a little bit so they can watch each other. As soon as 435 00:26:12,030 --> 00:26:15,210 he got to that merge plot position over the radio, I had 436 00:26:15,210 --> 00:26:19,170 the communications dialed up into speaker up in combat 437 00:26:19,170 --> 00:26:22,110 Information Center, so everyone was hearing it. He's like, "Oh, 438 00:26:22,110 --> 00:26:25,980 my God, oh my God I'm engaged, I'm engaged!" And when I when we 439 00:26:25,980 --> 00:26:28,230 got that down, it sounded just like that too. When I got back 440 00:26:28,230 --> 00:26:30,030 to the Beach I said "What the hell happened sir". He said: 441 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,000 "well, as soon as I intercepted it, it barrel rolled around me 442 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,840 and went straight down to the water. I followed it down and 443 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:38,820 that's what the other disturbances in the water you 444 00:26:38,820 --> 00:26:43,110 said this little like Tic Tac looking thing was darton 445 00:26:43,140 --> 00:26:45,720 erotically, just about about 30 feet above the water in the 446 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:47,250 river, something in the water whirling the water." 447 00:26:47,250 --> 00:26:48,000 I think that was sealife, my personal 448 00:26:49,110 --> 00:26:56,670 Mick West: So yeah, in the description, I kind of thought 449 00:26:56,700 --> 00:26:59,790 that the boiling of the water, it kind of sounded a bit like, 450 00:26:59,820 --> 00:27:02,340 you know, like whales feeding or sharks feeding or whatever. 451 00:27:03,030 --> 00:27:04,000 Feeding Frenzy type thing. 452 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,730 Kevin Day: Commander Fravor comes over the radio, he's like 453 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,320 "Charlie, Fast Eagle 01, we may have a downed aircraft here. 454 00:27:11,500 --> 00:27:14,770 That's what he said. So we started launching our search and 455 00:27:14,770 --> 00:27:18,820 rescue procedures and the whole nine yards. But as it turned 456 00:27:18,820 --> 00:27:24,310 out, it wasn't a downed aircraft. Yeah, that was the 457 00:27:24,310 --> 00:27:24,940 initial thought. 458 00:27:28,870 --> 00:27:33,700 Mick West: You said that Fravor told you that it did a barrel 459 00:27:33,700 --> 00:27:35,200 roll around him? 460 00:27:35,230 --> 00:27:37,000 Kevin Day: Yeah. Around his aircraft 461 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,410 Mick West: So this was like, this was when he first 462 00:27:41,410 --> 00:27:42,130 encountered it. 463 00:27:42,690 --> 00:27:45,000 Kevin Day: When he was engaged with it, it went shwosh, 464 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,580 straight down to the water, according to what he told me 465 00:27:47,580 --> 00:27:50,460 when we got back to the Beach, after we did the exercise ??? 466 00:27:51,540 --> 00:27:52,000 Mick West: That's interesting, cuz 467 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:56,080 Kevin Day: I wasn't able to see that on, I didn't see no barrel 468 00:27:56,080 --> 00:28:00,820 roll on my display. That was verbal, Yeah. Yeah, I just saw 469 00:28:00,820 --> 00:28:04,690 it go from [?]200,000[?] in less than a second down to the south, 470 00:28:04,690 --> 00:28:07,870 you know, from vertically making a vertical movement. 471 00:28:10,210 --> 00:28:11,740 Mick West: Alright, so let me just make sure I got this 472 00:28:11,740 --> 00:28:19,990 straight. So Fravor says that he flew to the position where it 473 00:28:19,990 --> 00:28:24,910 was. You saw a merge plot with that one thing. And he tells you 474 00:28:24,910 --> 00:28:29,770 that at that point, it kind of flipped around him, and then 475 00:28:29,770 --> 00:28:34,930 shot down to the ocean surface. Right. Yeah. And was it was it 476 00:28:34,930 --> 00:28:39,280 at that point that he saw the? The disturbance? 477 00:28:40,470 --> 00:28:42,450 Kevin Day: Yes. Yeah. He chased it down and he left his wingman 478 00:28:42,450 --> 00:28:46,410 up high down and he chasing it down that when he was chaing it 479 00:28:46,410 --> 00:28:49,740 down that then reacted to him. And that's when he saw the 480 00:28:49,740 --> 00:28:50,760 disturbance in the water. 481 00:28:52,830 --> 00:28:57,450 Mick West: Yeah, I think that, I must say, that's not exactly the 482 00:28:57,450 --> 00:29:01,350 the order in which he tells it now. Like he says he first saw 483 00:29:01,350 --> 00:29:04,920 the disturbance in the water. And then he saw the Tic Tac and 484 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,140 then the Tic Tac came up rather than coming down. 485 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,910 Kevin Day: Well, he had chased it down here, but he may have 486 00:29:11,910 --> 00:29:16,470 saw the disturbance before he got it. He noticed the thing's 487 00:29:16,590 --> 00:29:19,020 darting around the top of the ocean. I think that's what he 488 00:29:19,020 --> 00:29:23,280 was trying to say. Yeah, but when he saw that object, that's 489 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,280 why he was chasing it down when it dropped down to the surface 490 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:26,850 of the ocean. 491 00:29:27,860 --> 00:29:30,020 Mick West: So you think that he would have obviously been 492 00:29:30,050 --> 00:29:34,130 heading towards, was it 20,000 or 28,000. for that one. 493 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:37,910 Kevin Day: One he intercepted? 494 00:29:38,270 --> 00:29:38,900 Mick West: Yeah. 495 00:29:40,190 --> 00:29:41,630 Kevin Day: Was at 28,000 feet. 496 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,150 Mick West: Okay, so like it was just like parts of a group of 497 00:29:44,150 --> 00:29:45,980 five at 28,000 feet. 498 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,300 Kevin Day: Yeah, it was the closest one to us, the lead of 499 00:29:50,300 --> 00:29:50,930 the formation, so. 500 00:29:52,250 --> 00:29:55,970 Mick West: Right. So does that mean they would, that was a 501 00:29:56,030 --> 00:29:58,070 group was north of you at that point? 502 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,600 Kevin Day: Yes. ??? 503 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:05,990 Mick West: it was to the north of you and coming south. 504 00:30:06,980 --> 00:30:07,480 Kevin Day: Correct. 505 00:30:07,910 --> 00:30:10,370 Mick West: And you pick the lead of a formation of five. 506 00:30:11,270 --> 00:30:11,770 Kevin Day: Correct 507 00:30:12,350 --> 00:30:17,390 Mick West: Okay, that's interesting. And so so he flies 508 00:30:17,390 --> 00:30:20,720 over to it again. Again I apologize for getting into the 509 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,060 weeds here. But you know, I really want to clarify exactly 510 00:30:23,060 --> 00:30:29,990 what what happened as best as you can recall. So do you 511 00:30:29,990 --> 00:30:33,410 remember, were you watching it on the radar when it happened? 512 00:30:33,830 --> 00:30:36,650 Because you mean you were actually there? Yeah. So you saw 513 00:30:36,650 --> 00:30:39,590 the whole the whole thing, the whole merge plot and everything. 514 00:30:40,130 --> 00:30:43,850 Do you remember what happened to the other four in the group when 515 00:30:43,850 --> 00:30:45,830 he intercepted the first one? 516 00:30:47,150 --> 00:30:49,040 Kevin Day: They just kept coming down. 517 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:57,160 Mick West: Hmm. So so from your, your perspective, I guess you're 518 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,490 in the ship and Fravor has been been vectored in from somewhere 519 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:08,440 to this group of five. And then he he merges plot with one of 520 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:14,320 them. And the other four keep moving down? What What do you 521 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:21,010 see a Fravor, of the merge plot? Do you see like two overlaid 522 00:31:21,010 --> 00:31:22,780 symbols or just one symbol 523 00:31:24,220 --> 00:31:28,060 Kevin Day: Two overlaid symols, the unknown and his aircraft, 524 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,300 which is a friendly symbol, but now they're right on top of each 525 00:31:31,300 --> 00:31:33,010 other, at merge plot 526 00:31:33,850 --> 00:31:34,180 Mick West: okay, 527 00:31:34,180 --> 00:31:35,710 Kevin Day: but the symbols remain separate, they don't, 528 00:31:35,830 --> 00:31:36,970 they don't become one symbol. 529 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,120 Mick West: Okay, yeah. So you can still see, you can still see 530 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,390 those two things there. You just can't distinguish where they are 531 00:31:43,450 --> 00:31:44,000 relative to each other. 532 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:48,800 Kevin Day: Other than they're in their same vertical piece of 533 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:53,060 sky. That's correct yeah. I'd have to hook at each one to see 534 00:31:53,060 --> 00:31:54,260 the altitude difference. 535 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,820 Mick West: Okay, so, so if, Could you tell they were at the 536 00:31:59,820 --> 00:32:02,070 same altitude when when he got there? 537 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:03,140 Kevin Day: Yes. 538 00:32:03,900 --> 00:32:04,400 Mick West: Okay. 539 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,290 Kevin Day: When he when he, when you when you intercept something 540 00:32:07,290 --> 00:32:11,880 with the Super Hornet or any other type of aircraft you go, 541 00:32:11,910 --> 00:32:14,160 you're going to be co-altitude with what you're intercepting. 542 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:25,080 Mick West: Alright. Then, let me see. Let me see if I get this. 543 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:33,540 All right. So. So for Fravor's encounter, he describes kind of, 544 00:32:33,540 --> 00:32:37,080 you know, it's down at the ocean at this point. He's coming down 545 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,990 to it. Could you tell by looking at the radar that this was 546 00:32:39,990 --> 00:32:40,710 happening? 547 00:32:41,610 --> 00:32:42,600 Kevin Day: Of course. Yep. 548 00:32:42,780 --> 00:32:44,520 Mick West: So you could see. 549 00:32:47,460 --> 00:32:49,110 Kevin Day: We're tracking him the whole time. Yes. 550 00:32:50,130 --> 00:32:50,630 Mick West: Right. 551 00:32:50,630 --> 00:32:52,970 Kevin Day: We're listening to the comms and everything. 552 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,840 Mick West: Yeah. And you know, they're, they're in the same 553 00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,840 vertical piece of sky. But you can still distinguish the 554 00:32:59,870 --> 00:33:01,880 difference in Altitude's between the two. 555 00:33:03,710 --> 00:33:05,180 Kevin Day: Yeah, easily. Yeah. 556 00:33:05,900 --> 00:33:08,330 Mick West: Right. So you saw when he got there that they were 557 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,200 both co-altitude. And then did you see it drop down? 558 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,250 Kevin Day: I don't know how to say it, Mick, yeah. I'm not sure 559 00:33:19,250 --> 00:33:22,100 what word you want me to use to describe it because I've told 560 00:33:22,100 --> 00:33:23,330 you that four times already? 561 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:27,260 Mick West: Yeah, no, I I just want to what I'm trying to 562 00:33:27,260 --> 00:33:31,040 figure out is what is that you see on the screen? No, you you 563 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:31,430 know. 564 00:33:31,430 --> 00:33:34,850 Kevin Day: I see symbols, like, if I got a commercial airliner 565 00:33:34,850 --> 00:33:38,540 here and a fighter over here, and trackball up to the I want 566 00:33:38,540 --> 00:33:41,030 to get information on a fighter, I have to back up to it and 567 00:33:41,030 --> 00:33:43,850 click on it, Mick. It displays on my screen if I want to see 568 00:33:43,850 --> 00:33:45,830 that commercial. I do the same thing with that. 569 00:33:46,370 --> 00:33:46,790 Mick West: Okay, 570 00:33:46,790 --> 00:33:50,450 Kevin Day: click on that informational. And those two 571 00:33:50,450 --> 00:33:53,450 symbols remain two symbols unless they go off the radar. 572 00:33:54,260 --> 00:33:57,800 They never get better words. If they merge. It doesn't become 573 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:02,270 one symbol. Now. They remain separate contacts. Right? Yes. 574 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:06,080 We were able to watch the whole time as he chases this thing 575 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:07,370 down to the surface of the water. 576 00:34:07,690 --> 00:34:09,610 Mick West: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the reason I'm kind of harping 577 00:34:09,610 --> 00:34:12,280 on this point, and I apologize is that I think for a lot of 578 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,880 people, the the rapid vertical movement of the object is one of 579 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,370 the things that distinguishes it as being like something that's 580 00:34:18,370 --> 00:34:22,570 really unusual. And so just understanding how you could how 581 00:34:22,570 --> 00:34:27,700 you can determine that from the radar, nothe the symbology but, 582 00:34:28,060 --> 00:34:30,310 Kevin Day: that's what radar, radar tracks things and it was 583 00:34:30,310 --> 00:34:31,150 tracking it Right. 584 00:34:31,630 --> 00:34:34,030 Mick West: Right. I'm just wondering like did you have to 585 00:34:34,030 --> 00:34:35,710 click on it to get its altitude? 586 00:34:36,460 --> 00:34:36,960 Kevin Day: Yeah. 587 00:34:37,870 --> 00:34:40,990 Mick West: Right. So you wouldn't necessarily see it? Do 588 00:34:40,990 --> 00:34:41,490 the rapid. 589 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,940 Kevin Day: Like when you launch an application on your computer, 590 00:34:44,940 --> 00:34:49,530 you actually got to click on Yeah. Same thing with the bar 591 00:34:49,530 --> 00:34:50,160 system. Yeah. 592 00:34:51,050 --> 00:34:53,630 Mick West: So then like you're, after Fravor gets there and he 593 00:34:53,630 --> 00:34:59,450 sees it down the water and goes down. Then Then what happens 594 00:34:59,450 --> 00:35:02,030 from your perspective At that, at that point, what do you see 595 00:35:02,030 --> 00:35:02,690 in here? 596 00:35:05,750 --> 00:35:10,760 Kevin Day: goes on. Surely we may have a downed aircraft. And 597 00:35:11,720 --> 00:35:16,310 we started launching our search and rescue. I was: "Oh my god, 598 00:35:17,030 --> 00:35:22,340 what happened?", right. And when I talk to him later, when we got 599 00:35:22,340 --> 00:35:25,040 to the beach, he said that that object that Tic Tac looking out 600 00:35:25,070 --> 00:35:28,640 if you said it actually reacted to him, and it noticed he was 601 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:34,190 there. And they were he was probably about five miles from 602 00:35:34,190 --> 00:35:38,900 his combat is called a CA P point. When we're expecting ??? 603 00:35:38,900 --> 00:35:41,690 , we'll have CAP points around the threat group, and they'll 604 00:35:41,690 --> 00:35:46,160 stationary until something happens. And in this case, that 605 00:35:46,190 --> 00:35:50,360 object went from the surface of the water to where they were, to 606 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:54,950 his CAP point, about 40 miles away, in just several seconds, 607 00:35:54,950 --> 00:35:59,960 several ???. and again, those sonic booms and the air 608 00:35:59,960 --> 00:36:02,630 controller comes up on the radio and say: "Sir you're not gonna 609 00:36:02,630 --> 00:36:06,380 believe this but that object. That thing? It's at cap point? 610 00:36:07,730 --> 00:36:10,040 And of course, it is. Stunned silence on the radio at that 611 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:15,230 point. Somehow that object knew the CAP point and that's another 612 00:36:15,230 --> 00:36:16,280 strange thing about it. 613 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:19,600 Mick West: Yeah, yeah. Something that comes up a lot. I think, 614 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,650 you know, you hear that? How, how would you even know that? 615 00:36:23,650 --> 00:36:28,000 Yeah. Is it just as coincidence? Or was it deliberate? people 616 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:33,490 reading people's systems. So either the movement to the cap 617 00:36:33,490 --> 00:36:39,640 point, did you did youm after after the after Fravor gets 618 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:44,470 there, and there's the merge plot. When was the next time you 619 00:36:44,470 --> 00:36:48,370 saw it, like, not merge plotly, you know, like, separate from 620 00:36:48,370 --> 00:36:50,290 Fravor, separate target. 621 00:36:51,610 --> 00:36:55,090 Kevin Day: If he went, he went back, you started going back to 622 00:36:55,090 --> 00:36:57,880 his cat point in that object, whatever it was rejoin with 623 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,160 rejoined its group and just kept going south. And at that point, 624 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,500 we call, we called off the exercise at that point. 625 00:37:06,790 --> 00:37:08,560 Mick West: Alright, so let me let me get this straight like 626 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:14,380 the, this group of five, you intersect one, merge plot, then 627 00:37:15,130 --> 00:37:17,980 there's this little, you know, flying around, flying around, 628 00:37:17,980 --> 00:37:20,920 it's trying to figure out what it is, and then it shoots off to 629 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:25,270 his CAP points, like 40 miles away. And then it rejoins the 630 00:37:25,270 --> 00:37:27,880 group, and then they'll continue south. 631 00:37:31,660 --> 00:37:32,160 Kevin Day: Again? 632 00:37:33,490 --> 00:37:39,910 Mick West: So I just did the recap there of the intersection 633 00:37:39,940 --> 00:37:44,620 of of the group, so you send out Fravor to intercept one of the 634 00:37:44,710 --> 00:37:49,570 five, and he gets to the merge plot. And then he has this kind 635 00:37:49,570 --> 00:37:56,890 of little dogfight with it. And then it flies off and ends up at 636 00:37:56,890 --> 00:38:01,420 the cap point. And then later, it rejoins the group and then 637 00:38:01,450 --> 00:38:03,160 all five of them continue south. 638 00:38:04,540 --> 00:38:07,780 Kevin Day: Yeah. Called off the exercise at that point, 639 00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,160 Mick West: and you cancelled the exercise because of 640 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:18,420 Kevin Day: again, there is objects in our in our 641 00:38:18,420 --> 00:38:20,730 playground, so I wanted to see what they were, safety of 642 00:38:20,730 --> 00:38:24,780 flight. Flies up to it. The closest one, it dropped down, he 643 00:38:24,780 --> 00:38:28,380 chases it. He sees it. There's a disturbance in the water, 644 00:38:29,850 --> 00:38:33,840 swoosh, back to his CAP point about 40 miles away. So he goes 645 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,560 chasing back to the CAP point. And then that object rejoins its 646 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,890 original group. And at that point, I'm convinced that they 647 00:38:40,890 --> 00:38:45,030 are real objects, we have visual ID something, it's not a system 648 00:38:45,030 --> 00:38:47,130 glitch. It's not a hot air balloon. It's not a commercial 649 00:38:47,130 --> 00:38:50,790 airliner. It's something definitely unknown. It's really 650 00:38:50,790 --> 00:38:54,540 real. I'm concerned about safety of flight and Captain I 651 00:38:54,540 --> 00:38:58,050 recommend we canceled exercise. Because we've got objects in our 652 00:38:58,050 --> 00:39:01,500 playground here and no one knows what they are. And I know their 653 00:39:01,500 --> 00:39:05,310 real because Commander Fravor just gave me a visual ID saying 654 00:39:05,310 --> 00:39:09,270 hey, [?]physical[?] object. So we cancelled the exercise and 655 00:39:10,350 --> 00:39:15,630 just continued to monitor those groups as they appeared on 656 00:39:15,630 --> 00:39:16,130 for... 657 00:39:20,020 --> 00:39:24,850 Now Commander Fravor getting short on gas. So, he had to he 658 00:39:24,850 --> 00:39:29,350 had to return to base RTB to the carrier and Lieutenant Chad 659 00:39:29,350 --> 00:39:31,720 Underwood was get ready to launch the next in the next 660 00:39:31,720 --> 00:39:35,410 sortie, right. So we told "hey, hey Chad, make sure you take a 661 00:39:36,070 --> 00:39:40,150 infrared forward looking ATFLIR radar equipped get, and try to 662 00:39:40,150 --> 00:39:45,310 get these things on film. And commander, Lieutenant Underwood 663 00:39:45,310 --> 00:39:49,630 what he's like, "I'm gonna go find those things!" And that's 664 00:39:49,630 --> 00:39:53,380 exactly what he did. He wouldn't. That's how that attack 665 00:39:53,380 --> 00:39:54,640 video came into being. 666 00:39:56,470 --> 00:40:01,150 Mick West: So with Underwood, so this was Just like what, like an 667 00:40:01,150 --> 00:40:02,380 hour after Fravor was it? 668 00:40:03,340 --> 00:40:08,740 Kevin Day: No, it was a next sortie. I don't want to reveal 669 00:40:08,770 --> 00:40:11,320 classified, but it was the next launch off of the carrier, it 670 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:11,890 wasn't an hour. 671 00:40:11,890 --> 00:40:19,840 Mick West: So what did you vector to him out to the group of five 672 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:20,340 then? 673 00:40:21,910 --> 00:40:22,410 Kevin Day: Yeah. 674 00:40:24,010 --> 00:40:26,800 Mick West: And did you like you? Did you pick the same one? Or 675 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:28,330 could you tell which one it was? 676 00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:33,310 Kevin Day: We vectored him, probably the same contract. I 677 00:40:33,310 --> 00:40:34,570 don't, I don't recall. 678 00:40:35,410 --> 00:40:38,590 Mick West: Right. Well it was to another group. 679 00:40:40,240 --> 00:40:45,370 Kevin Day: It was the same group I had on my radar. It was 680 00:40:45,700 --> 00:40:50,020 obviously closer to us now. And the seconds sortie launched. We 681 00:40:50,140 --> 00:40:54,820 intercepted it again. After the video came about, we actually 682 00:40:54,820 --> 00:40:56,380 did two different intercepts that day. 683 00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:03,440 Mick West: So how close did Chad, how close did Lieutenant 684 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,060 Underwood get to that group? 685 00:41:11,210 --> 00:41:15,230 Kevin Day: It was almost a merge plot again, if I recall, it was 686 00:41:15,230 --> 00:41:18,710 a within the individual arena. He could see it with his 687 00:41:18,710 --> 00:41:19,520 eyeballs. 688 00:41:20,390 --> 00:41:22,550 Mick West: I really? Because I don't think he said, he I 689 00:41:22,550 --> 00:41:25,820 thought he said he just saw it with the camera. Did he get an 690 00:41:25,820 --> 00:41:26,840 actual visual on it? 691 00:41:28,310 --> 00:41:31,550 Kevin Day: yeah, he saw both, yeah. According to his 692 00:41:31,550 --> 00:41:32,180 testimony, 693 00:41:33,740 --> 00:41:34,220 Mick West: right, 694 00:41:34,220 --> 00:41:37,550 Kevin Day: because in order to, in order to, yeah, he saw it, 695 00:41:37,940 --> 00:41:38,810 I'll just leave it at that. 696 00:41:39,770 --> 00:41:45,080 Mick West: Alright, so the video you know the video is this this 697 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:49,340 famous video which everyone everyone shows. Did you see that 698 00:41:49,340 --> 00:41:53,120 at the time that video? Well not, not l-, I don't know did 699 00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:53,930 you see it live. 700 00:41:57,110 --> 00:42:02,720 Kevin Day: Um, I was watching it on radar. Live in that video, 701 00:42:02,720 --> 00:42:05,540 that little snippet of video that's what is it? 10 seconds 702 00:42:05,540 --> 00:42:06,290 long or whatever. 703 00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:07,230 Mick West: Yeah, about a minute I think 704 00:42:07,230 --> 00:42:10,440 Kevin Day: that that same video appeared in my email the next 705 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:15,330 morning. And that's why when I saw it in 2017, I was working 706 00:42:15,330 --> 00:42:17,730 down golf course, you know, watching the golf tournament. 707 00:42:17,730 --> 00:42:19,650 And also they walk out of the kitchen carrying a plate of 708 00:42:19,650 --> 00:42:24,870 food. And CNN was on, I like "hey turn it up". And when I saw 709 00:42:24,870 --> 00:42:28,950 the video, I actually [dropped] the plate of food, I was in such 710 00:42:28,950 --> 00:42:32,760 shocked. I knew exactly what I was looking at it. And I had 711 00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:38,460 that same video next morning after this happened. And the 712 00:42:38,460 --> 00:42:41,580 interesting thing about the video, let me let me talk a 713 00:42:41,580 --> 00:42:44,580 little bit about procedure, right? Let's say you're the 714 00:42:44,580 --> 00:42:47,370 pilot, and I'm the I'm the controller, I direct you to do 715 00:42:47,370 --> 00:42:52,410 an intercept and you accept you accepted, you will come back 716 00:42:52,410 --> 00:42:58,350 with a statement: "fight's on ape's on" which means all you 717 00:42:58,350 --> 00:43:03,090 recording devices are are turne on from the moment you get th 718 00:43:03,090 --> 00:43:05,370 order to intercept until afte it's long over. In other w 719 00:43:05,370 --> 00:43:07,590 rds, you don't wait till y u're intercepting and turn them 720 00:43:07,590 --> 00:43:10,470 ff for 10 seconds, and then t rn it off. It's left on the ent 721 00:43:10,470 --> 00:43:14,310 re time. That's why I know that here's a longer video. A l 722 00:43:14,310 --> 00:43:18,120 nger video definitely definitely exists. We just do 723 00:43:18,390 --> 00:43:22,260 't turn them on for ten econds then turn them of 724 00:43:23,380 --> 00:43:25,570 Mick West: Well that that video looks like it's it's from quite 725 00:43:25,570 --> 00:43:27,280 a long distance away. 726 00:43:28,930 --> 00:43:29,620 Kevin Day: Okay? 727 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,470 Mick West: Do you think there was a closer video 728 00:43:32,950 --> 00:43:34,540 Kevin Day: I don't see why that matters? 729 00:43:35,310 --> 00:43:39,660 Mick West: Well, if if there's more video, then and you said he 730 00:43:39,660 --> 00:43:42,660 got to the merge plot, which I guess is within a few miles 731 00:43:43,590 --> 00:43:49,000 closer, then would would there be a closer up shot of the 732 00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:49,200 Kevin Day: I would have to presume so. I have never seen a 733 00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:49,800 object? 734 00:43:55,720 --> 00:43:59,830 longer video. I've only seen the 10 second snippet that we all 735 00:43:59,830 --> 00:44:06,700 see. I never have seen the entire video. But I know at 736 00:44:06,700 --> 00:44:09,940 least I know it. At one point at least I had to it had to have it 737 00:44:09,940 --> 00:44:12,940 existed at one point because that standard operating 738 00:44:12,940 --> 00:44:17,050 procedure and just don't turn it off for 10 seconds and turn it 739 00:44:17,050 --> 00:44:20,020 off ??? something cool just happen. You turn it on and leave 740 00:44:20,020 --> 00:44:22,030 it on until your intercept is over. 741 00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:28,990 Mick West: Yeah, I imagine. So were there? So you, with Chad 742 00:44:28,990 --> 00:44:32,110 Underwood's encounter this was, was this you that was directing 743 00:44:32,110 --> 00:44:35,050 him or you were just part of it was a 744 00:44:35,380 --> 00:44:38,620 Kevin Day: the controller was sitting at the console in front 745 00:44:38,620 --> 00:44:41,560 of me the error controller and I'm still supervisors, so I'm on 746 00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:44,710 a headset with a really long cord like I can actually pace 747 00:44:44,710 --> 00:44:49,690 over Combat and talk to various watch stations. The actual 748 00:44:51,970 --> 00:44:53,770 controller, I won't give his name here because the other 749 00:44:53,770 --> 00:44:58,120 cannot publicly but his callsign was Poison. That was, he was a 750 00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:00,280 junior guy to me and he was at air control. 751 00:45:00,940 --> 00:45:04,150 Mick West: Right actually he was talking to Underwood. 752 00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:11,140 Kevin Day: Yeah. Yeah. Talking to the second sortie 753 00:45:12,370 --> 00:45:14,080 Mick West: you would have been able to hear the conversation 754 00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:14,950 though I guess like 755 00:45:15,490 --> 00:45:18,580 Kevin Day: Yeah, in fact I had it in the overhead speaker in 756 00:45:18,580 --> 00:45:19,780 Combat, everyone was listening to it. 757 00:45:19,780 --> 00:45:25,990 Mick West: okay. Right. Okay. So we have the the Fravor Encounter 758 00:45:25,990 --> 00:45:28,420 and then the Underwood encounter. Were there other 759 00:45:28,420 --> 00:45:29,350 intercepts? 760 00:45:31,250 --> 00:45:39,200 Kevin Day: No. Because after, after, after Underwood had gone 761 00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:42,560 up there and got got us film, we were in the process of canceling 762 00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:44,780 the whole exercise and cancelling all the launches and 763 00:45:44,780 --> 00:45:48,860 everything. We were gravely concerned about safety of flight 764 00:45:48,860 --> 00:45:52,970 at that. Everything got cancelled. There was only two 765 00:45:52,970 --> 00:45:53,630 intercepts. 766 00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:58,880 Mick West: Okay. Someone was saying something about the 767 00:45:59,090 --> 00:46:02,720 scattering when planes got close to them? Is that something that 768 00:46:02,720 --> 00:46:03,290 happened? 769 00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:05,060 Kevin Day: That's not my memory. 770 00:46:06,650 --> 00:46:09,470 Mick West: Okay. Yeah, I can't remember where I read that. Now 771 00:46:09,470 --> 00:46:13,310 I got it written down but it's doesn't say who wrote is. 772 00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:15,890 Kevin Day: They maintained ??? groups 773 00:46:17,390 --> 00:46:20,450 Mick West: Okay, so the the all maintain this this this? Was it 774 00:46:20,450 --> 00:46:23,510 like a really fixed formation and it wasn't like rotating or 775 00:46:23,510 --> 00:46:24,800 spreading out or anything? 776 00:46:25,370 --> 00:46:29,240 Kevin Day: It was exteremely fixed. Like snowflakes falling 777 00:46:29,240 --> 00:46:33,320 on a calm winter day. They kept the same bearing and range from 778 00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:37,820 each other the whole time. All co-altitude though, at 28,000 779 00:46:37,820 --> 00:46:38,320 feet 780 00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:44,910 Mick West: So with with Chad Underwood. How did that end? 781 00:46:44,940 --> 00:46:47,400 What was the what was the kind of resolution of that? Why? Why 782 00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:49,140 did he break away from the group? 783 00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:57,190 Kevin Day: We were concerned about safety of light. So we 784 00:46:57,190 --> 00:46:58,630 cancelled, we cancelled everything 785 00:46:59,530 --> 00:47:02,320 Mick West: But wasn't he specifically sent out to 786 00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:02,980 intercept? 787 00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:07,030 Kevin Day: It was at this point I was convinced it wasn't a ??? 788 00:47:07,030 --> 00:47:10,030 it was actually real objects that I was we were all thinking, 789 00:47:10,030 --> 00:47:12,370 hey, something's civilian related. Let's stay out of their 790 00:47:12,370 --> 00:47:16,960 way until we figure out what the hell this is. So we cancelled, 791 00:47:16,990 --> 00:47:20,320 we cancelled everything. Just for safety of flight reasons. 792 00:47:21,430 --> 00:47:24,880 Again, I was never concerned about I was never concerned 793 00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,570 about the military defense. I was concerned about safety of 794 00:47:28,570 --> 00:47:29,070 flight. 795 00:47:29,410 --> 00:47:31,990 Mick West: Yeah. No of course. Number one. 796 00:47:33,190 --> 00:47:36,100 Kevin Day: Probably civilian. was what I was thinking at the 797 00:47:36,100 --> 00:47:38,920 time. Again, Mick, I was not thinking UFOs. 798 00:47:39,430 --> 00:47:39,930 Mick West: Yeah, 799 00:47:40,870 --> 00:47:44,410 Kevin Day: I would have I would have physically laughs suggested 800 00:47:44,410 --> 00:47:47,740 that at the time, I really would have. It would have been humorus 801 00:47:47,740 --> 00:47:56,590 to me. You know? What? Need some sleep. Go have some coffe. Yeah 802 00:47:56,590 --> 00:47:57,340 I really would 803 00:47:58,030 --> 00:48:00,550 Mick West: One of the pilots said that they got made fun of 804 00:48:00,550 --> 00:48:04,930 when they came back. Like they were playing Men in Black on 805 00:48:15,860 --> 00:48:05,430 the 806 00:48:15,860 --> 00:48:19,640 it. People wearing tinfoil hat. Yeah. 807 00:48:20,390 --> 00:48:24,170 Mick West: I saw a question about Underwood again, like you 808 00:48:24,170 --> 00:48:27,050 sent Underwood out to the group, you and the air traffic 809 00:48:27,050 --> 00:48:31,820 controller? Was there like a group of two like, with with 810 00:48:31,850 --> 00:48:33,290 Fravor, there's two planes? 811 00:48:37,110 --> 00:48:41,640 Kevin Day: Things kind of got a little bit confusing, because 812 00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:46,230 when the second sortie became aware of what was going on in 813 00:48:46,230 --> 00:48:50,730 these objects, all a sudden, independently, I had aircraft 814 00:48:50,730 --> 00:48:54,330 going up north too, not under my control. That's why I don't have 815 00:48:54,330 --> 00:48:58,530 a lot of situational awareness. what some of the other pilots 816 00:48:58,710 --> 00:49:03,690 saw or didn't see. I am. I'd like to talk to some of them. 817 00:49:03,690 --> 00:49:06,210 Actually, I wish they would come forward and clarify some of this 818 00:49:06,210 --> 00:49:08,190 stuff. I really do. 819 00:49:09,420 --> 00:49:11,490 Mick West: There were other planes maybe doing 820 00:49:11,490 --> 00:49:14,220 Kevin Day: 15 years ago, memories are getting foggy. 821 00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:18,570 Mick West: Yeah. It's a problem I said, like with other planes 822 00:49:18,570 --> 00:49:20,610 that you said they were independent of you that might 823 00:49:20,610 --> 00:49:21,840 have done an intercept. 824 00:49:22,590 --> 00:49:27,690 Kevin Day: Right. And again, this this is a pretty chaotic at 825 00:49:27,690 --> 00:49:31,110 this point. Because we're in the process of canceling the 826 00:49:31,110 --> 00:49:34,680 exercise and put out the order for everyone to RTB back to the 827 00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:41,460 carrier and just basically get out of the airspace. Because I 828 00:49:41,460 --> 00:49:44,580 was concerned about safety of flight in my thought at the 829 00:49:44,580 --> 00:49:47,940 time, hey, something completely civilian related. I don't know 830 00:49:47,940 --> 00:49:50,310 what it is right now. But we'll find out later right now I just 831 00:49:50,310 --> 00:49:52,350 want to make sure my aircraft pilots are safe. 832 00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:58,020 Mick West: So did you basically you canceled everything that so 833 00:49:58,050 --> 00:49:58,350 what's 834 00:49:58,350 --> 00:50:00,900 Kevin Day: ??? we told them to go back home. 835 00:50:01,740 --> 00:50:04,080 Mick West: So after that happened after you after you 836 00:50:04,110 --> 00:50:08,970 written your return to base on everybody, what what was what 837 00:50:08,970 --> 00:50:12,000 did? What was the plan in trying to figure out what these things 838 00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:12,510 were? 839 00:50:14,309 --> 00:50:16,709 Kevin Day: There wasn't one, essentially. 840 00:50:18,850 --> 00:50:20,440 Mick West: I mean, surely if you've cancelled the exercise? 841 00:50:21,070 --> 00:50:22,960 Kevin Day: Not in that monent there wasn't one. I mean what 842 00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:25,750 were we supposed to do? Ypu tell me 843 00:50:25,750 --> 00:50:29,050 Mick West: Right, so what happened? 844 00:50:31,180 --> 00:50:31,680 Kevin Day: Nothing. 845 00:50:32,590 --> 00:50:36,220 Mick West: But I mean, like, you just sit tight on the ship and 846 00:50:36,220 --> 00:50:37,060 don't do anything. 847 00:50:39,550 --> 00:50:42,400 Kevin Day: Not at my level, I just continue to monitor the 848 00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:44,080 contacts. Was there stuff going on behind the scenes? 849 00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:46,450 Mick West: Okay. Do you think there's something else going on? 850 00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:52,020 Kevin Day: I don't know. 851 00:50:52,630 --> 00:50:53,350 Mick West: So you just kind of 852 00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:57,740 Kevin Day: the intel side of the house maybe doing something 853 00:50:57,770 --> 00:51:01,250 behind the scenes? I don't know. I wasn't ,there was nothing I 854 00:51:01,250 --> 00:51:04,910 could have done. Except for re intercepted. But what was the 855 00:51:04,910 --> 00:51:08,600 point of doing that? I didn't have, the aircraft didn't have 856 00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:12,590 missiles didn't have ammunition, or the machine guns or anything? 857 00:51:14,420 --> 00:51:17,750 The only thing I could do. So I we tracked it and reported in. 858 00:51:17,750 --> 00:51:21,590 We took our datalink picture and send it back to the Beach. 859 00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:25,220 Mick West: Okay, so I guess it's gonna be in their hands now. The 860 00:51:25,220 --> 00:51:30,560 guys on the Beach. They decide 861 00:51:32,570 --> 00:51:36,860 Kevin Day: maybe the Air Force was doing something? I just that 862 00:51:36,860 --> 00:51:38,660 part of the story? I don't know. I wish I did. 863 00:51:41,150 --> 00:51:41,480 Mick West: Yeah, 864 00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:44,600 Kevin Day: but all the tools in my bag had been used that wonder 865 00:51:44,630 --> 00:51:45,980 nothing further I could have done. 866 00:51:48,470 --> 00:51:48,970 Mick West: So 867 00:51:50,750 --> 00:51:55,400 Kevin Day: ??? we didn't want to do that because if it's some 868 00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:59,900 sort of civilian thing, we don't want to create trouble for 869 00:51:59,900 --> 00:52:03,650 ourselves by intercepting it over and over and over again. 870 00:52:11,310 --> 00:52:14,790 Mick West: The plane when it flew to the, no sorry the 871 00:52:14,790 --> 00:52:20,370 object, when it moved to the cap point. Did you did you see it 872 00:52:20,370 --> 00:52:23,940 actually move? Or did it just appear there? 873 00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:26,640 Kevin Day: We saw it actually move. It went swoosh [moves hand 874 00:52:26,820 --> 00:52:30,750 rapidly]. In just several seconds? About 40 miles away. 875 00:52:31,620 --> 00:52:33,300 Mick West: So you tracked that on the radar 876 00:52:34,770 --> 00:52:35,280 Kevin Day: Yes 877 00:52:36,690 --> 00:52:39,750 Mick West: From the, from Fravors position to the CAP 878 00:52:39,750 --> 00:52:40,250 point. 879 00:52:41,460 --> 00:52:42,510 Kevin Day: Back to the CAP point, yes. 880 00:52:43,110 --> 00:52:46,950 Mick West: After he got to the CAP points. Did you track it? 881 00:52:47,910 --> 00:52:49,980 Back to its, you know, group? 882 00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:53,760 Kevin Day: Yes, it stayed on the CAP point for several seconds. 883 00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:55,830 And then it rejoined its original group. 884 00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:56,970 Mick West: Okay. 885 00:52:57,050 --> 00:53:00,560 Kevin Day: It kept going south, Back to 28,000 feet back to 100 886 00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:01,790 knots and kept going so, 887 00:53:02,900 --> 00:53:08,420 Mick West: huh. So when from the CAP point to the group, it must 888 00:53:08,420 --> 00:53:11,270 have been going really fast, obviously, to get there very 889 00:53:11,270 --> 00:53:13,010 quickly. And you track that on the radar? 890 00:53:13,730 --> 00:53:16,190 Kevin Day: Well, you gotta remember. I was physically 891 00:53:16,190 --> 00:53:18,860 sitting at the radar this entire time. I'm on a really long 892 00:53:18,860 --> 00:53:25,400 headset, wandering over Combat. Some of those, some of those 893 00:53:26,900 --> 00:53:29,000 that, I wasn't staring at the scope the entire time. I [loud 894 00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:30,200 sound of chimes] to do 895 00:53:35,700 --> 00:53:41,190 Mick West: can hear some music in the background. Okay. 896 00:53:43,710 --> 00:53:48,300 sounding like someone playing the xylophone. Okay. 897 00:53:56,280 --> 00:54:01,380 I got a, you see. It's interesting. Like you. You 898 00:54:01,380 --> 00:54:06,900 studied posting about this on Above Top Secret? Was that kind 899 00:54:06,900 --> 00:54:10,440 of the first time you told the story like afterwards? Or is it 900 00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:16,410 Kevin Day: the first time I remember saying anything? First 901 00:54:16,410 --> 00:54:20,310 of all known no one believed in, got off the ship and I ended up 902 00:54:20,310 --> 00:54:24,720 going to my turn out to be my last command. Commander naval 903 00:54:24,720 --> 00:54:27,810 air, air forces Pacific just across the corner, it'll be 904 00:54:27,810 --> 00:54:32,310 loose. And I got clowns, you know? "Sure. You intercepted 905 00:54:32,310 --> 00:54:37,080 UFOs" I was so frustrated with like I actually actually wrote, 906 00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:40,830 wrote about it. I called it my story "The See'r". And I 907 00:54:40,830 --> 00:54:44,160 fictionalized the whole thing. And I published. I published my 908 00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:48,690 short story in the Library of Congress in February of 2009. 909 00:54:49,380 --> 00:54:53,250 Just in case, the story ever did become public. My notary 910 00:54:53,670 --> 00:54:57,450 corroborated because, you know, unless I'm a time traveler, how 911 00:54:57,450 --> 00:54:58,080 would I do that? 912 00:54:58,590 --> 00:54:59,700 Mick West: And that's good. A good move. 913 00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:02,670 Kevin Day: My, my book is now contemporaryous evidence of this 914 00:55:02,670 --> 00:55:07,500 really did happen. And that's my ???. 915 00:55:07,500 --> 00:55:10,290 Mick West: That was like 2007 or something like that. 916 00:55:10,770 --> 00:55:11,490 Kevin Day: 2009 917 00:55:11,970 --> 00:55:16,680 Mick West: 2009 Yeah, y 918 00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:20,640 Kevin Day: You can download it for free. It's on. It's on Yes, 919 00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:26,220 Su ISS, you calm. And you can type in Sanders anthology. You 920 00:55:26,220 --> 00:55:29,790 can you can read it online. Yeah, I pretty much read it, or 921 00:55:29,790 --> 00:55:36,240 you can order. It's published on Amazon. And just so you know, 922 00:55:36,240 --> 00:55:38,760 all the other funds from the bookshelves are going to fund 923 00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:41,310 our expedition coming up next year, we're going back out to So 924 00:55:41,310 --> 00:55:43,290 Cal credibly find these things? 925 00:55:44,670 --> 00:55:46,410 Mick West: Yeah, I want to talk to you about that as well. 926 00:55:46,410 --> 00:55:50,340 Because the you started this kind of group. Is it me? Is it a 927 00:55:50,340 --> 00:55:51,930 company I guess like, like, 928 00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:54,990 Kevin Day: I'd like to have you there with us, be awesom dude 929 00:55:55,830 --> 00:55:57,480 Mick West: Well It it's im my neck of the woods. 930 00:55:57,480 --> 00:56:03,870 Kevin Day: . We ask you. UAP expeditions 501 c three 931 00:56:03,870 --> 00:56:09,660 nonprofit aid. Our plan is to have two teams, one on Catalina 932 00:56:09,660 --> 00:56:14,670 Island, and one on a ship. And we're going to go try to re-find 933 00:56:14,670 --> 00:56:15,300 these things. 934 00:56:15,510 --> 00:56:17,910 Mick West: Yeah. So you think it could be a regular thing 935 00:56:19,830 --> 00:56:20,330 Kevin Day: say again? 936 00:56:20,970 --> 00:56:23,160 Mick West: You think it could be a regular occurrence? 937 00:56:24,390 --> 00:56:27,570 Kevin Day: I think, of course, I'm just guessing like everyone 938 00:56:27,570 --> 00:56:31,470 else, but I think it's there's something between those objects 939 00:56:31,470 --> 00:56:36,780 and something in the water? And because of that, I mean, if I 940 00:56:36,780 --> 00:56:42,150 had to pick a time, in addition to that, I mean, if assuming you 941 00:56:42,150 --> 00:56:45,780 are going to try to find them, when would you pick? I would 942 00:56:45,780 --> 00:56:48,840 pick the same time, the same time without them to work alone. 943 00:56:50,010 --> 00:56:51,780 is kind of common sense. You know, where else to really 944 00:56:51,780 --> 00:56:54,210 start? So yeah, that's how they 945 00:56:55,500 --> 00:56:58,680 Mick West: got a few months ago before it comes up again in 946 00:56:58,680 --> 00:56:59,130 November. 947 00:56:59,130 --> 00:57:01,050 Kevin Day: we were supposed to be there this year but COVID 948 00:57:01,170 --> 00:57:01,800 prevented it 949 00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:03,210 Mick West: okay, yeah. 950 00:57:03,210 --> 00:57:03,710 Kevin Day: So we had to re-schedule. 951 00:57:05,610 --> 00:57:09,360 Mick West: Yeah, it's unfortunate, so. Oh, yeah, that 952 00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:16,440 reminds me. You said in another interview, that you thought that 953 00:57:16,830 --> 00:57:20,280 it was perhaps the new capabilities of the radar that 954 00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:22,920 allowed you to see them this time whereas you couldn't see 955 00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:23,700 them before? 956 00:57:25,860 --> 00:57:28,710 Think that's definitely a possibility. And I didn't have 957 00:57:28,710 --> 00:57:32,040 any awareness of that at the time. I just kind of put two and 958 00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:35,520 two together, later. I knew there was a system upgrade, but 959 00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:39,570 it was above my clearance level. Exactly, the minute details of 960 00:57:39,570 --> 00:57:43,830 it. But I think that's possible. The upgrades to the system have 961 00:57:43,860 --> 00:57:46,710 suddenly allowed us to see something that had maybe been 962 00:57:46,710 --> 00:57:51,420 there for a long, long time. But I'm guessing. I don't i don't 963 00:57:51,420 --> 00:57:55,680 know if that's true or not. I just .. don't know what to 964 00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:56,180 think. 965 00:57:56,370 --> 00:57:58,860 You know, the skeptical viewpoint there. Which is, which 966 00:57:58,860 --> 00:58:04,230 is me is: what if the systems upgrade kind of introduced some 967 00:58:04,230 --> 00:58:07,560 problems into the system, like it became overly sensitive to 968 00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:08,460 certain things. 969 00:58:09,090 --> 00:58:12,690 Kevin Day: That's what I thought was happening,. But how do you 970 00:58:12,690 --> 00:58:20,070 square that away with actual eyeballs on the objects? How was 971 00:58:20,070 --> 00:58:21,480 that possible if it wasn't [???] 972 00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:23,280 Mick West: I would square it away as 973 00:58:24,630 --> 00:58:27,030 Kevin Day: You tell me Mick, is Commander Fravor lying? You 974 00:58:27,030 --> 00:58:27,530 think he's lying? 975 00:58:28,410 --> 00:58:33,990 Mick West: I don't think he is. I never rule anything out. 976 00:58:33,990 --> 00:58:34,230 [crosstalk] 977 00:58:34,230 --> 00:58:38,160 Yeah, well, but then what if, I mean, this sounds like pretty 978 00:58:38,220 --> 00:58:42,000 ridiculous. What if it was a coincidence? Like you're getting 979 00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:45,000 all these like, for 10 days, you're getting all these false 980 00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:50,250 returns? And then one day that just happens to coincide with 981 00:58:50,250 --> 00:58:53,940 one of the pilots spotting an unusual object? Maybe they 982 00:58:53,940 --> 00:58:54,960 weren't related. 983 00:58:57,810 --> 00:59:00,720 Kevin Day: I don't see how you don't see how you argue that 984 00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:04,050 logically. doesn't make any sense at all. 985 00:59:05,790 --> 00:59:09,240 Mick West: No, it certainly seems a bit of a coincidence but 986 00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:12,030 then you know, strange coincidences do happen and this 987 00:59:12,030 --> 00:59:16,560 might have been just the the one that did happen. But obviously 988 00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:17,700 it doesn't seem like it. 989 00:59:17,700 --> 00:59:24,030 Kevin Day: was let's say it was a coincidence. What did 990 00:59:24,030 --> 00:59:24,990 Commander Favor see. 991 00:59:26,490 --> 00:59:29,070 Unknown: I don't know. That was an interesting, interesting 992 00:59:29,070 --> 00:59:34,110 thing. Like, from his description of it. Sounds like 993 00:59:34,110 --> 00:59:39,330 he's saw a, you know, a Tic Tac shaped thing with little little 994 00:59:39,330 --> 00:59:41,940 legs underneath it. And he was speechless. 995 00:59:43,620 --> 00:59:47,580 Kevin Day: Non-Newtonian thing, the way of operating, doing 996 00:59:47,610 --> 00:59:52,500 physically impossible things. Based on the way [???] . 997 00:59:53,730 --> 00:59:58,590 Mick West: Yeah, certainly. It's certainly a big puzzle in the, 998 00:59:58,590 --> 00:59:59,850 an the thing about it is... 999 01:00:01,050 --> 01:00:04,140 Kevin Day: Even if it is a coincidence, so what? You still 1000 01:00:04,140 --> 01:00:05,400 have to explain what he saw? 1001 01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:06,570 Mick West: Yeah, 1002 01:00:07,170 --> 01:00:08,400 Kevin Day: it wasn't a coincidence. 1003 01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:10,950 Mick West: And of course there's the video as well. 1004 01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:15,690 Kevin Day: I respect that point of view. But this was not a 1005 01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:16,220 coincidence. 1006 01:00:17,190 --> 01:00:19,170 Mick West: No, I certainly can't claim to have 1007 01:00:19,170 --> 01:00:23,160 Kevin Day: The object that he intercepted was the same object 1008 01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:26,070 that I was tracking on radar. 1009 01:00:26,790 --> 01:00:32,490 Mick West: Okay. Yeah, I don't, I don't have a good answer. I 1010 01:00:32,490 --> 01:00:34,920 don't have a good answer for that. And yet, to be honest, my 1011 01:00:34,950 --> 01:00:38,370 my main focus, when I'd been looking into these things, has 1012 01:00:38,370 --> 01:00:43,590 been looking at the videos. So all the other stuff is is is 1013 01:00:43,590 --> 01:00:47,340 not, certainly not an area of expertise of mine and say, when 1014 01:00:47,340 --> 01:00:51,090 I theorize about what Fravor that might have seen, you know, 1015 01:00:51,090 --> 01:00:56,070 I think perhaps he might have seen some kind of, I don't know, 1016 01:00:56,070 --> 01:00:59,190 like a targeting a target device, like a towed target type 1017 01:00:59,190 --> 01:01:03,390 thing that they've got loose. And he perhaps misjudge the size 1018 01:01:03,390 --> 01:01:06,420 of it, and thought it was further away when it was 1019 01:01:06,420 --> 01:01:09,960 actually closer to him. And then that made him misjudge the speed 1020 01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:13,110 of it. But yeah, none of these explanations are very 1021 01:01:13,110 --> 01:01:17,760 satisfying, or particularly good. So I can't really claim to 1022 01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:19,530 know, much beyond... 1023 01:01:19,650 --> 01:01:20,790 Kevin Day: Can I ask you a question Mick? 1024 01:01:21,150 --> 01:01:21,650 Mick West: Sure 1025 01:01:24,180 --> 01:01:29,850 Kevin Day: Assuming that these objects were real, what are they 1026 01:01:29,850 --> 01:01:33,180 are do you think they're probably manmade? Or what would 1027 01:01:33,180 --> 01:01:35,790 be your opinion in that case? 1028 01:01:36,060 --> 01:01:40,920 Mick West: Well, if if we're talking about things moving from 1029 01:01:40,950 --> 01:01:46,200 28,000 feet to 50 feet in 0.78 seconds, you've done the math 1030 01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:50,730 there, you know, that it's it's an impossibly high acceleration 1031 01:01:50,820 --> 01:01:53,760 in terms of, you know, humans being in the craft, and it's 1032 01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:58,410 also pretty much impossible in terms of human technology as we 1033 01:01:58,410 --> 01:02:02,970 know it. So if if these things are real things, then that would 1034 01:02:02,970 --> 01:02:08,400 mean that technology exists to drive them that is way beyond 1035 01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:12,210 anything that we know that we have. So that leads to two 1036 01:02:12,210 --> 01:02:17,100 possibilities, really, maybe three, like two and a half. It's 1037 01:02:17,100 --> 01:02:20,970 either human technology, or it's non human technology, and it's 1038 01:02:20,970 --> 01:02:26,190 human technology, then it's either US technology, or it's 1039 01:02:26,220 --> 01:02:30,030 somebody else's technology like the Russians or, you know, some 1040 01:02:30,060 --> 01:02:36,180 evil super genius in the volcano. But the more likely 1041 01:02:36,180 --> 01:02:36,680 thing... 1042 01:02:37,470 --> 01:02:40,230 Kevin Day: The other half possibility, is that it's 1043 01:02:40,230 --> 01:02:42,420 something actually living, something alive. 1044 01:02:42,900 --> 01:02:45,240 Mick West: Yeah, I guess that's another one. I guess that'll be 1045 01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:45,990 three, actually. 1046 01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:47,850 Kevin Day: Yeah, like, some kind of life-form 1047 01:02:48,660 --> 01:02:52,140 Mick West: yeah, like you mean, you talk about it happening 1048 01:02:53,340 --> 01:02:56,640 consistently in that area. So it's something that's going from 1049 01:02:57,360 --> 01:03:03,210 Catalina to Guadalupe. And I think people have mentioned, I 1050 01:03:03,210 --> 01:03:06,720 mean, this is this is really kind of far out speculation like 1051 01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:10,200 the the whales migrate up and down that that coast. 1052 01:03:12,570 --> 01:03:13,020 Kevin Day: Yeah, that's [???] 1053 01:03:13,020 --> 01:03:15,990 Mick West: I think it might have been some living entity 1054 01:03:15,990 --> 01:03:20,370 following the whales. But, you know, this is obviously very, 1055 01:03:20,970 --> 01:03:22,020 very speculative. 1056 01:03:22,020 --> 01:03:24,030 Kevin Day: If we are throwing out possibilities, we have to 1057 01:03:24,030 --> 01:03:24,570 include that. 1058 01:03:27,150 --> 01:03:30,720 Mick West: I certainly wouldn't put that near the top of my 1059 01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:33,480 list. I think I would probably put aliens above some kind of 1060 01:03:33,510 --> 01:03:34,440 living creature 1061 01:03:36,060 --> 01:03:37,410 Kevin Day: that's at the bottom of my list. [???] 1062 01:03:37,770 --> 01:03:39,750 Mick West: Yeah. Yeah. Cuz he would have 1063 01:03:40,260 --> 01:03:42,150 Kevin Day: I have to include it as a possibility. [???] 1064 01:03:43,500 --> 01:03:44,580 Mick West: But essentially, you're talking about 1065 01:03:44,580 --> 01:03:46,830 supernatural beings at that point, because he couldn't 1066 01:03:46,830 --> 01:03:50,040 physically do that type of movement, or some kind of 1067 01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:53,370 ethereal being, which again, is a bit a bit speculative. 1068 01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:54,120 Kevin Day: Correct 1069 01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:56,670 Mick West: But yeah, like, I guess I keep things on the list, 1070 01:03:56,670 --> 01:03:58,650 even if the way way down on the list. 1071 01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:06,480 Kevin Day: Yeah.[???] It seems crazy to even seems crazy to 1072 01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:07,980 even hear myself say that. 1073 01:04:08,430 --> 01:04:11,880 Mick West: Well, yeah. I mean, you know, people. People thought 1074 01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:14,760 he was crazy that rocks fell out of the sky at one point. So 1075 01:04:14,820 --> 01:04:20,070 yeah. Lessons from history teach us to never, never 100% 1076 01:04:20,100 --> 01:04:24,570 eliminate things, but but also, I think, give them appropriate 1077 01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:29,550 weight in your considerations. Even though I wouldn't say 100% 1078 01:04:29,580 --> 01:04:34,230 discount the idea of ethereal beings following whales. I think 1079 01:04:34,230 --> 01:04:37,770 it's vanishingly small in terms of the probability. 1080 01:04:38,910 --> 01:04:39,410 Kevin Day: Me too. 1081 01:04:40,050 --> 01:04:43,740 Mick West: Yeah. All right. I think that was thing we've 1082 01:04:43,740 --> 01:04:46,620 covered. Let me just like quickly go over my little list 1083 01:04:46,620 --> 01:04:50,550 of things and make sure I haven't missed anything. Do 1084 01:04:50,550 --> 01:04:55,860 anything about these, these tapes being taken away? What are 1085 01:04:55,860 --> 01:04:58,020 your thoughts on that controversy. 1086 01:04:58,170 --> 01:05:01,110 Kevin Day: That's other people's testimony. That was not my 1087 01:05:01,110 --> 01:05:04,680 situation. I had I didn't realize it had happened at the 1088 01:05:04,680 --> 01:05:09,810 time, so I have no knowledge about that. But I have to 1089 01:05:09,810 --> 01:05:11,940 beleive my shipmates when they told me [???] 1090 01:05:12,750 --> 01:05:15,300 Mick West: but it was like some conflicting accounts that isn't 1091 01:05:15,300 --> 01:05:18,600 like David Favor say that the tapes were overwritten, and no 1092 01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:22,710 one came on board to take them. Is that? Is there a reason why 1093 01:05:22,710 --> 01:05:23,520 he would think that? 1094 01:05:23,580 --> 01:05:29,520 Kevin Day: I don't know how? I don't know. But I don't know how 1095 01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:31,950 he could claim that. He wasn't on the Princeton, he was on the 1096 01:05:31,950 --> 01:05:34,410 Nimitz. How would he know if someone came on the Princeton. 1097 01:05:36,060 --> 01:05:38,400 Mick West: Yeah, I must admit, I haven't really been following 1098 01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:43,080 that. Exactly. So I'm not sure what what he said. So we 1099 01:05:43,080 --> 01:05:52,890 shouldn't really even delve into it. So what, what what would be 1100 01:05:52,890 --> 01:05:55,500 your number one theory? For what happened? 1101 01:05:59,700 --> 01:06:00,240 Kevin Day: Man... 1102 01:06:03,900 --> 01:06:05,070 Mick West: Or the top two perhaps 1103 01:06:10,470 --> 01:06:15,900 Kevin Day: I mean, assuming that they're real Mick. I would 1104 01:06:15,900 --> 01:06:18,840 rather believe there's something manmade and I would [???]. [???] 1105 01:06:20,010 --> 01:06:23,460 I would want to believe It's a UFO [...] so you know. 1106 01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:27,630 Mick West: Yeah. It seems more straightforward. 1107 01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:30,570 Kevin Day: Yeah, it is more straightforward. 1108 01:06:31,110 --> 01:06:32,940 Mick West: Yeah. 'cause there's a lot of implications. 1109 01:06:33,530 --> 01:06:37,610 Kevin Day: more easy to swollow, right? Yeah. But then again, I 1110 01:06:37,610 --> 01:06:41,870 mean, this is a huge universe. Maybe it's a little naive of us 1111 01:06:41,870 --> 01:06:44,450 to think we're the only ones in it. 1112 01:06:47,450 --> 01:06:49,340 Mick West: Yeah well, I certainly wouldn't rule out the 1113 01:06:49,340 --> 01:06:55,820 possibility of visitors. But like you, I would, I would, I 1114 01:06:55,820 --> 01:07:00,440 think because of the, as you describe it, non Newtonian 1115 01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:06,080 physics. I think you need some, personally, I would need some 1116 01:07:06,080 --> 01:07:10,790 very strong evidence that these actual maneuvers actually 1117 01:07:10,790 --> 01:07:13,460 happens. Now, I think, you know, from your perspective, you you 1118 01:07:13,460 --> 01:07:18,140 you saw things on the radar in a much more direct way to me, 1119 01:07:18,140 --> 01:07:22,700 which which maybe might make you more convinced than I was, would 1120 01:07:22,700 --> 01:07:26,630 be about it. But I think the question is, like, how much 1121 01:07:26,630 --> 01:07:27,130 Yeah, 1122 01:07:27,710 --> 01:07:31,160 Kevin Day: plus the eyeballs the pilots had on the objects? 1123 01:07:31,190 --> 01:07:40,000 Mick West: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Were there other pilots . 1124 01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:40,050 Kevin Day: It wasn't my eyeballs on them, I'm just telling you, 1125 01:07:40,050 --> 01:07:40,990 Mick West: Yeah, yeah, they are elling you a description. Tha 1126 01:07:40,990 --> 01:07:42,400 based on their description 1127 01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:48,960 so the there was the other pla e, the Hawkeye. And apparently, 1128 01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:51,630 there were crew members on 1129 01:07:56,340 --> 01:07:59,700 Kevin Day: PJ Hughes, he was [???] guy airborne at the time. 1130 01:08:00,150 --> 01:08:04,050 He thought they actually observed one of the Tic Tac 1131 01:08:04,110 --> 01:08:08,070 objects go right past the airplane. So he saw it with 1132 01:08:08,070 --> 01:08:10,890 their eye. they never had a lot of radar though. They saw it 1133 01:08:10,890 --> 01:08:11,700 visually only 1134 01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:14,730 Mick West: have you read personally taught her anybody 1135 01:08:14,730 --> 01:08:17,340 else who saw it directly? 1136 01:08:17,340 --> 01:08:25,020 Kevin Day: I have spoken with Commander Fravor, obviously, and 1137 01:08:25,320 --> 01:08:30,210 PJ Hughes, and I've never spoken with Underwood. So Fravor and 1138 01:08:30,210 --> 01:08:32,610 Hughes are the only two I've ever spoken to, they actually 1139 01:08:32,610 --> 01:08:33,840 saw it with their eyeballs. 1140 01:08:34,020 --> 01:08:40,470 Mick West: Right now. I interviewed Gary voorhis for my 1141 01:08:40,470 --> 01:08:42,840 podcast, about a year ago. 1142 01:08:42,840 --> 01:08:45,540 Kevin Day: He was a computer technician on board the 1143 01:08:45,540 --> 01:08:46,040 Princeton. 1144 01:08:46,620 --> 01:08:47,120 Mick West: Right, 1145 01:08:47,130 --> 01:08:49,800 Kevin Day: he was a guy. He's in charge of recording all this 1146 01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:54,000 data. And preserving it on the tapes. [??? backup ???] 1147 01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:58,530 If there's a mishap he can [???] the tapes, figure what the hell 1148 01:08:58,530 --> 01:09:03,690 happened. The reason why we data collect stuff, and it's all goes 1149 01:09:03,870 --> 01:09:04,650 back to safety. 1150 01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:09,640 Mick West: So if if the people who came on board to take those 1151 01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:13,360 tapes, I guess the rationale wouldn't be one or two things 1152 01:09:13,360 --> 01:09:16,360 either they were trying to figure out what the heck this 1153 01:09:16,360 --> 01:09:18,790 object was that was buzzing the ship or they were trying to 1154 01:09:18,790 --> 01:09:22,420 figure out what went wrong with the radar by analyzing the data. 1155 01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:29,080 These are my my my one and two scenarios, I guess two in one 1156 01:09:29,080 --> 01:09:31,990 scenarios. But I was gonna ask you something about Oh, yeah. 1157 01:09:31,990 --> 01:09:36,130 Gary, Gary voris. He says he used the the Big Eyes the big 1158 01:09:36,160 --> 01:09:42,280 big binoculars on the on the ship to look at the objects. Do 1159 01:09:42,280 --> 01:09:45,760 you remember people doing that? He said he would like go in. 1160 01:09:45,790 --> 01:09:50,440 Kevin Day: I did it myself. There was a couple days later. 1161 01:09:51,070 --> 01:09:53,230 Of course now that after the commander Fravor's intercept we 1162 01:09:53,230 --> 01:09:55,840 have [???] "what the hell are those" So the next group that 1163 01:09:55,840 --> 01:10:00,010 came? It was at, it was in the evening watch again. I picked 1164 01:10:00,010 --> 01:10:03,820 the closest one, I ran up to the ship and I actually correlated 1165 01:10:03,820 --> 01:10:07,300 that object, but it was nothing special, Mick. And it was just a 1166 01:10:07,300 --> 01:10:10,000 glowing white light in the sky. I didn't do anything when I was 1167 01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:14,080 watching. It just kept going South. tracking south slowly. 1168 01:10:14,860 --> 01:10:18,100 But it was the same. It was the same object I had on radar. What 1169 01:10:18,100 --> 01:10:21,790 it was, I have no idea. And to me, it was just a [???] light, 1170 01:10:22,870 --> 01:10:24,580 it didn't do anything fancy when I was wathcing. 1171 01:10:25,230 --> 01:10:28,080 Mick West: Yeah. It's really interesting, though, that after 1172 01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:32,100 such a thing happened that there wasn't more of a response. And 1173 01:10:32,100 --> 01:10:38,190 you said like the captain kind of acted on interested in the 1174 01:10:38,190 --> 01:10:39,690 whole thing, even after this. 1175 01:10:42,090 --> 01:10:44,850 Kevin Day: I would describe him as a real skeptic like you are. 1176 01:10:45,540 --> 01:10:48,960 And he I think he I think he would agree with you on most 1177 01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:58,080 points. His only concern was safety of flight in I was one 1178 01:10:58,080 --> 01:11:01,740 that convinced him to be concerned about safety of flight 1179 01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:08,070 Mick West: And to is your feeling then that he just he 1180 01:11:08,070 --> 01:11:10,740 didn't give it enough thought? Or do you think he knew 1181 01:11:10,740 --> 01:11:14,130 something? And there was something going on behind the 1182 01:11:14,130 --> 01:11:14,790 scenes? 1183 01:11:18,450 --> 01:11:22,050 Kevin Day: At the time I I thought the latter. I thought 1184 01:11:22,050 --> 01:11:25,320 okay, there's something going on here above my paygrade. And I'm 1185 01:11:25,530 --> 01:11:31,260 just gonna shut up about it. And [???] what he said, and just the 1186 01:11:31,260 --> 01:11:34,590 way he was acting? That he knew something he couldn't tell me? 1187 01:11:34,770 --> 01:11:41,070 Yes. I'm just guessing because I don't know. That's [????] above 1188 01:11:41,070 --> 01:11:43,500 my paygrade. And above my clearance level ... 1189 01:11:44,790 --> 01:11:47,400 Mick West: I guess if that's the case that would that would 1190 01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:52,680 probably kind of point more towards a manmade thing. Would 1191 01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:56,460 you say like, a secret test of some sort? or? 1192 01:11:58,650 --> 01:11:59,100 Kevin Day: Yeah, 1193 01:11:59,100 --> 01:12:02,280 Mick West: people talk about them? Maybe testing radar 1194 01:12:02,280 --> 01:12:03,600 spoofing technology. 1195 01:12:05,970 --> 01:12:08,130 Kevin Day: Again, how do you describe how do you explain the 1196 01:12:08,130 --> 01:12:13,530 visual contacts from the pilots? I mean, a radar spoof is 1197 01:12:13,770 --> 01:12:16,560 something that's not real, trying to convince the radar 1198 01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:20,100 that it is real. But if I have a pilot that goes and intercepts 1199 01:12:20,100 --> 01:12:23,940 it and actually sees an actual physical object? How could that 1200 01:12:23,940 --> 01:12:24,960 be radar spoofing? 1201 01:12:26,160 --> 01:12:28,830 Mick West: Yeah, but then again, like, what would be the point of 1202 01:12:28,830 --> 01:12:33,630 these groups of five slow moving objects drifting off the coast? 1203 01:12:34,470 --> 01:12:37,680 From a you know, if they're a human technology? What are they? 1204 01:12:37,710 --> 01:12:41,370 What are they doing? Isn't seemed like a very practical 1205 01:12:41,370 --> 01:12:44,580 thing? Like what is it some kind of slow moving drone or 1206 01:12:44,580 --> 01:12:45,390 something like that? 1207 01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:47,010 Kevin Day: I don't know. Yeah, why would they do that? 1208 01:12:47,310 --> 01:12:48,240 Mick West: But can also... 1209 01:12:51,690 --> 01:12:54,180 Kevin Day: And that's just not how tests are done. Because 1210 01:12:55,860 --> 01:12:59,040 never in my career, that you might run a test on top of my 1211 01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:05,070 test without telling me because the safety of life [???]. I 1212 01:13:05,070 --> 01:13:10,590 mean, illegal in terms of Navy, doctrine and procedures, I mean, 1213 01:13:10,590 --> 01:13:11,430 you can't do that. 1214 01:13:15,090 --> 01:13:15,600 Mick West: Yeah. 1215 01:13:16,860 --> 01:13:19,290 Kevin Day: Like, you can't put objects in my playspace and not 1216 01:13:19,290 --> 01:13:24,000 telling me what to do if I run into on now we're all in 1217 01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:24,500 trouble. 1218 01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:25,580 Mick West: Yeah. 1219 01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:30,220 Kevin Day: Break aircraft, and maybe someone dies, you know 1220 01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:34,210 Mick West: Yeah, I guess unless they were just, you know, mostly 1221 01:13:34,270 --> 01:13:38,470 virtual contacts and not real contacts. And maybe this this, 1222 01:13:38,500 --> 01:13:41,140 this one other contacts as well 1223 01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:47,110 Fascinating stuff. So I really appreciate you talking to me. Is 1224 01:13:47,110 --> 01:13:49,960 there anything else you think we haven't discussed 1225 01:13:49,990 --> 01:13:51,970 Kevin Day: Let's do this again, let's continue this, I've 1226 01:13:51,970 --> 01:13:56,830 enjoyed this greatly. And maybe we can set it up we got, you can 1227 01:13:56,830 --> 01:13:59,830 interviewed more than just me. Kind of in a group thing? 1228 01:14:02,380 --> 01:14:04,570 Because I was unable to answer some of your questions, but 1229 01:14:04,570 --> 01:14:06,880 maybe some of the other guys and gals can. 1230 01:14:08,530 --> 01:14:11,920 Mick West: Yeah, it'd be good. It was interesting. Hearing your 1231 01:14:11,980 --> 01:14:14,800 your accounts, because some of it is, you know, to be to be 1232 01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:18,130 honest, it seemed quite different to how how Fraser 1233 01:14:18,130 --> 01:14:21,490 describes the encounter, you know, years later, obviously, 1234 01:14:21,520 --> 01:14:26,680 you're recalling what he told you afterwards. And it would be 1235 01:14:26,680 --> 01:14:30,400 kind of interesting to try to reconcile all these these minor 1236 01:14:30,400 --> 01:14:33,820 things like was it What was the altitude at intercept and things 1237 01:14:33,820 --> 01:14:38,830 like that? Because the you know, there's, yeah, I think you've 1238 01:14:38,890 --> 01:14:41,860 resolved some questions here, but it kind of raised you as 1239 01:14:41,860 --> 01:14:42,360 well. 1240 01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:45,760 Kevin Day: One thing that we do agree on is he intercepted 1241 01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:48,070 something, on that day 1242 01:14:48,070 --> 01:14:49,510 Mick West: well yeah, he saw something 1243 01:14:49,510 --> 01:14:55,660 and in maneuvered in ways that are unexplainable. I mean, we 1244 01:14:55,660 --> 01:14:59,530 agree with all that that the minutiae of what he thought 1245 01:14:59,530 --> 01:15:01,600 happened. After we got back to the ship and what he thinks 1246 01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:05,770 happened on board my ship? He can think whatever he wants. 1247 01:15:06,250 --> 01:15:10,510 And then the Chad Underwood encounter, that seems a little 1248 01:15:10,510 --> 01:15:14,680 bit different how it was previously described? Like, I 1249 01:15:14,680 --> 01:15:20,260 don't know, people talking about intercepting one of a group. And 1250 01:15:20,590 --> 01:15:25,150 I don't think he said he got that close to it either. So 1251 01:15:25,150 --> 01:15:27,490 maybe that's something we could resolve somehow. 1252 01:15:27,670 --> 01:15:29,110 Kevin Day: We can resolve that, I'm sure. 1253 01:15:29,710 --> 01:15:30,220 Mick West: Yeah. 1254 01:15:30,490 --> 01:15:32,680 Kevin Day: I mean, he got close enough to film on on his ATFLIR 1255 01:15:32,680 --> 01:15:33,520 system. So 1256 01:15:34,570 --> 01:15:38,650 Mick West: yeah, it'd be. Do you think he got close enough to see 1257 01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:38,800 it 1258 01:15:47,740 --> 01:15:52,990 [???] Captain, I'm talking to the technicians, I'm talking to 1259 01:15:52,990 --> 01:15:56,170 my air intercept controller, I'm talking to the electronic 1260 01:15:56,170 --> 01:16:00,430 warfare operator, I'm trying to put all the pieces puzzle 1261 01:16:00,430 --> 01:16:02,830 together in my head so I can come up with an identification. 1262 01:16:03,640 --> 01:16:04,140 And 1263 01:16:04,990 --> 01:16:07,870 Mick West: you give me this description of you walking 1264 01:16:07,870 --> 01:16:11,530 around the room on this long, long corded headset? sounded 1265 01:16:11,530 --> 01:16:13,210 like something from the movies? 1266 01:16:13,210 --> 01:16:16,600 Kevin Day: [...] this object, when he filmed it. I don't I 1267 01:16:16,600 --> 01:16:17,100 don't know. 1268 01:16:17,500 --> 01:16:20,440 Mick West: Yeah, but did you say he got to a merge plot 1269 01:16:20,680 --> 01:16:21,250 situation? 1270 01:16:22,150 --> 01:16:22,690 Kevin Day: What was that? 1271 01:16:23,260 --> 01:16:27,040 Mick West: Did you get to a merge plot, Underwood? 1272 01:16:28,870 --> 01:16:31,450 Kevin Day: Again, I don't know how. I don't believe so. But I 1273 01:16:31,450 --> 01:16:34,120 don't know how close he actually got to it to the thing, ... 1274 01:16:34,120 --> 01:16:37,030 took off. Yeah, yeah. [makes swoosh noise] 1275 01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:41,110 Mick West: Yeah, that's, that's the whole point of these videos, 1276 01:16:41,110 --> 01:16:43,300 you get like, you know, 30 seconds or a minute or 1277 01:16:43,300 --> 01:16:45,760 something. And then you don't you don't know what happened on 1278 01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:56,290 either side of it. It's so frustrating. All right, Kevin. I 1279 01:16:56,290 --> 01:16:59,170 just want to check you're okay. Want to check. You're okay with 1280 01:16:59,170 --> 01:17:02,290 me putting this up? on YouTube? Is that alright? 1281 01:17:03,610 --> 01:17:07,540 Kevin Day: Yeah. And you can even edit, edit, no, cut out the 1282 01:17:07,540 --> 01:17:09,490 parts you want. I don't care. Do whatever you want. 1283 01:17:13,810 --> 01:17:14,310 Mick West: Cool. 1284 01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:17,710 Kevin Day: So do what you need to with it. And I would like 1285 01:17:19,390 --> 01:17:20,290 members of the team? 1286 01:17:21,550 --> 01:17:23,380 Mick West: Yeah, well, let's, let's get this out there and see 1287 01:17:23,380 --> 01:17:26,560 what kind of people will probably pick up on various 1288 01:17:26,560 --> 01:17:29,110 points of what you said, because I think some of it is actually 1289 01:17:29,470 --> 01:17:34,000 new, least new to some people. And we'll see. See what kind of 1290 01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:38,050 reactions we get and what type of questions arise from it. And 1291 01:17:38,050 --> 01:17:39,640 so maybe you do it again. 1292 01:17:41,110 --> 01:17:41,830 Kevin Day: Right, thank you man. 1293 01:17:41,830 --> 01:17:44,050 Mick West: And hope the technology works next time. 1294 01:17:45,010 --> 01:17:46,480 Kevin Day: Yeah. Oh, yeah. 1295 01:17:48,070 --> 01:17:50,500 Mick West: Yeah, yeah. All right. Well, thank you very 1296 01:17:50,500 --> 01:17:53,080 much. Kevin it has been an hour and a half. 1297 01:17:53,680 --> 01:17:56,560 Kevin Day: Again, I appreciate your skepticism. I truly, truly 1298 01:17:56,560 --> 01:17:56,830 mean that. 1299 01:17:56,830 --> 01:17:59,290 Mick West: I appreciate your your openness and willingness to 1300 01:17:59,290 --> 01:18:01,780 talk has been very useful and interesting. 1301 01:18:03,130 --> 01:18:03,730 Kevin Day: All right. All right. 1302 01:18:03,990 --> 01:18:05,550 Mick West: I'll let you go. Have a Have a good day.